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IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE
EIGHTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT, IN
AND FOR BAKER COUNTY, FLORIDA

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CASE NO. 02-2019-CF-382--A

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STATE OF FLORIDA

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vs.

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BRIAN LOUIS ROBINSON,

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Defendant.
______________________________
Proceedings:

JURY TRIAL (EXCERPTS - WITNESS
TESTIMONY)

Before:

THE HONORABLE PHILLIP PENA
Circuit Judge

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Date:

February 13, 2024

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Place:

Baker County Courthouse
Macclenny, Florida

Reporter:

Angela Reichenbach
Eighth Judicial Circuit

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APPEARANCES:
THE HONORABLE BRIAN S. KRAMER, STATE ATTORNEY
Eighth Judicial Circuit of Florida
RALPH YAZDIYA and RYAN KING
ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEYS
339 East Macclenny Avenue, Suite 126
Macclenny, Florida 32063
Attorneys for the State of Florida

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APPEARANCES:

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THE LAW OFFICE OF NAH-DEH SIMMONS
NAH-DEH SIMMONS
P.O. BOX 41083
Jacksonville, Florida 32203

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- A N D 6
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THE LAW OFFICE OF ANTHONY K. BARNEY, P.A.
ANTHONY BARNEY
The Jacksonville Urban League Bldg
903 Union St W Ste 101
Jacksonville, FL 32204
Attorneys for the Defendant

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P R O C E E D I N G S

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(February 13, 2024)

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LIEUTENANT DAVID MANCINI,

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having been produced and first duly sworn as a witness,

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and having responded "I do" to the oath, testified as

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follows:

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THE COURT:

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MR. YAZDIYA:

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THE COURT:

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Thank you.

Please be seated.

May I proceed, Your Honor?
You may.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. YAZDIYA:
Q

If you could please state your name for the

record.

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A

David Mancini.

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Q

What is your current occupation?

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A

I am a lieutenant over the detective division

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at the Baker County Sheriff's Office.
Q

How long have you been employed with the Baker

County Sheriff's Office?

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A

Approximately nine years.

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Q

What are your current responsibilities and

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duties?
A

I oversee the detective division which

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consists of six detectives, a crime scene investigator,

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a crime analyst, and I also oversee all the criminal

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investigations that go on in the Baker County Detention

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Center.

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Q

What other law enforcement experience do you

A

One year as a patrol officer at the Pinellas

have?

County Sheriff's Office.
Q

How many different positions have you had at

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the Baker County Sheriff's Office in the last nine years

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until your current position?

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A

I worked as a patrol deputy on the road, a

detective, and a detective supervisor.
Q

Can you explain to the jury what type of

training you have.
A

Yes.

So I attended the basic law enforcement

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academy in 2011 at St. Johns River State College in St.

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Augustine.

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in death, homicide, suicide investigations, interviews

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and interrogations, child abuse, and neglect training

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and narcotics investigation training.

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Q

Since then I've attended advanced training

And what type of cases have you handled in the

last nine years?
A

Probably thousands, ranging from simple thefts

to homicides.

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Q

Do you have military experience?

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A

I do.

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Q

And what type and for how long?

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A

I served five years in the United States

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Marine Corps.

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Q

Let me draw your attention to this current

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case.

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2019 were you working at the Baker County Sheriff's

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Office?

Let me take you back to June of 2019.

In June of

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A

Yes, sir.

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Q

And what was your position at that time?

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A

I wasn't34:34P2 a detective supervisor.

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a sergeant at the time.
Q

And what were your duties and responsibilities

at that time in 2019?
A

The same that they are now.

Overseeing the

detective division, supervising the other detectives.

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Q

Did you know a Brian Robinson?

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A

I did.

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Q

How did you know him?

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A

He was an employee in the Baker County

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I was

Detention Center at that time.

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Q

Do you see him in the courtroom today?

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A

I do.

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Q

Can you please point to him and identify him

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by an article of clothing.
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pink salmon-colored tie.

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MR. YAZDIYA:

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Your Honor, for the record he's

identified Mr. Robinson.

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He's the gentleman in the black suit with the

THE COURT:

So reflected.

BY MR. YAZDIYA:
Q

Can you explain how you got involved in this

case in June of 2019.
A

Yes.

So I was contacted by the jail

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administrators at that time who informed me that a

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female inmate/detainee had made allegations against the

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defendant that were -- that she had been sexually

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battered.

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Q

Do you mean the name of this individual who

had made this complaint?

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A

Yes.

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Q

And what was --

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A

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.

I believe I'm saying her

last name correct.
Q

Okay.

And you said the complaint was in

regards to -A

Yes.

She had made a complaint that she had

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been -- that there was an inappropriate relationship

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between her and the defendant, that she had been

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sexually battered and some advances had been made

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towards her.

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Q

And the defendant once again was Mr. Robinson?

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A

That's correct.

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Q

Did you begin to conduct an investigation once

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you received this complaint?
A

Yes.

At that time I assigned Detective Morgan

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McDuffie.

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participated in the investigation with her as well as

As lead detective I supervised and

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with the Department of Homeland Security.

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was a detainee, a federal detainee in ICE custody, so

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they participated in the investigation as well.

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Q

Can you explain what you mean by an "ICE"

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inmate.

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that housed at the Sheriff's Office?

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A

The inmate

What does that mean and why is someone like

So the Baker County Sheriff's Office contracts

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with federal law enforcement officer agencies, the U.S.

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Marshals, and Immigrations Customs Enforcement.

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house detainees and for whatever reason they may be a

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detainee, whether it's immigration status or if it's a

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criminal offense that they're in our facility.

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also house county inmates as well.

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detainee in ICE custody at that time.

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Q

So we

So we

But she was a

Do you recall from your investigation when

these incidents that she had reported were to -- alleged

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to have occurred approximately?

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A

From March 2019 to May 2019.

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Q

At that time was Mr. Robinson, the defendant,

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was he employed with the Baker County Sheriff's Office

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at that time?

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A

Yes, sir.

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Q

Did you happen to know his date of birth?

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A

I do.

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Q

Absolutely.

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A

I believe it's -- I believe it's January 7th,

If I can refer to my report.

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1993.

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investigation he would have been 26 years old.

And that's accurate.

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Q

26 years old?

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A

Yes.

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Q

And the --

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At the time of the

, do you happen to

know what her date of birth was?

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A

If I can refer to the report --

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Q

Absolutely.

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A

--

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.
Q

Okay.

At the time -- I know this may sound

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redundant, but at the time was Mr. Robinson a law

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enforcement officer or a correctional officer with the

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Baker County Sheriff's Office?

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A

He was.

He was a correctional officer.

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Q

And at the time

was obviously

an inmate or a detainee during that time period as well?

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A

That's correct.

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Q

Do you happen to recall what Mr. Robinson, the

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defendant's, responsibilities were during that time

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period of March 2019 through May 2019?

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A

So he was a detention deputy assigned to the

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jail.

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the safety and security of the facility and the inmates

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His responsibilities would have been to ensure

therein.
Q

Can you explain what you did during the course

of your investigation.
A

Yes.

So numerous interviews were conducted

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and certain items of evidence were collected throughout

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this investigation by not only the Baker County

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Sheriff's Office but Homeland Security.

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Q

You said you assigned this case to Morgan

McDuffie?

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A

That's correct.

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Q

At the time she was employed at the Baker

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County Sheriff's Office?

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A

Yes.

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Q

She still employed there?

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A

No, sir.

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Q

And do you recall where she's employed at now?

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A

She's a special agent at the Florida

Department of Law Enforcement.
Q

During the course of the investigation were

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you involved in the collection or receiving of any

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evidence?

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A

Yes, sir.

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Q

And do you recall what type of evidence that

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would have been?
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I received a package that was mailed or

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hand-delivered by Homeland Security that would have

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contained the victim's saliva, swabs of her saliva.

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collected the defendant's saliva with cotton swabs from

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the inside of his cheek.

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Q

And what did you do with these swabs of the --

saliva swabs of the defendant and also of

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saliva swabs that you had received?
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These items were placed into evidence at the

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Sheriff's Office and were later submitted to the Florida

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Department of Law Enforcement for further analysis.

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Q

And how would they have been submitted to the

Florida Department of Law Enforcement?
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They would have been transported by our

evidence custodian.

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Q

And do you recall who that was at the time?

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A

Yes.

Jodi Altman.

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Q

Jodi Altman.

Okay.

During the course of your

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investigation did you determine that these offenses,

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these crimes occurred here in Baker County?

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A

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Yes, sir.
MR. YAZDIYA:

One moment, Your Honor.

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Honor, I tender the witness at this point.

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you.

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THE COURT:

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MR. SIMMONS:

Yes, Your Honor.

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THE WITNESS:

I'm sorry.

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MR. SIMMONS:

May it please the Court?

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THE COURT:

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Thank

Defense, any questions.

You do.

You may proceed.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SIMMONS:

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Q

Good morning, Detective.

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A

Good morning.

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Q

You are a detective at the Baker County

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Your

Sheriff's Office, correct?

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A

Yes, sir.

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Q

And because you're a detective there are

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certain professional training you had to go through?

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A

That's correct, yes, sir.

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Q

And as a professional you have learned how to

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write reports?
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Yes, sir.

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Q

And you've learned to write reports a certain

way because these reports are important, correct?

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A

Yes, sir.

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Q

They must be detailed?

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A

That's correct.

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Q

They must be accurate?

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A

Yes, sir.

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Q

They must be truthful?

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A

Yes, sir.

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Q

And in this case you did a couple of reports,

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Yes, sir.

correct?

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A

Yes, sir.

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Q

And with our understanding, reports are very

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important because sometimes we have to rely on them,

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correct?

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A

Yes, sir.

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Q

And sometimes we rely on them without even

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speaking to you?

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A

I'm sorry.

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Q

Sometimes we rely on those reports without

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What is the question?

even speaking to you, correct?

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A

Yes, sir.

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Q

Prosecutors rely on them?

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A

That's correct.

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Q

Judges rely on them.

So now you've stated

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that you were the lead detective in this case.
A

No, I didn't.

Detective McDuffie was the lead

detective.
Q

Okay.

Detective McDuffie was the lead

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detective.

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a call over from the jail about a sexual assault that

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took place, correct?

You -- you stated that at some point you got

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A

Yes, about the complaint.

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Q

And you never interviewed the victim?

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A

I did not, no.

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Q

Did you have an opportunity to speak to the

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lieutenant at the jail, Mr. Messer?

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A

Yes.

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Q

Now, there was a -- there is some sort of a

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software program that they have at the jail, an RFID

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system where it monitors all the information of

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everything that happens at the jail, correct?

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A

Yes, but I have limited knowledge on how that

works, though.
Q

Did you inquire or look into that with Officer

Messer?

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A

No, I did not.

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Q

Okay.

Did you -- now, you were aware that

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there was a couple of incidents or alleged incidents

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between Mr. Robinson and the alleged victim, correct?

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A

Yes.

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Q

One of those incidents was alleged to have

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happened the night of April the 22nd going into the 23rd

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of 2019?

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A

I'd have to refer to my report as far as

specific dates.

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Q

Okay.

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A

What was the date?

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Q

One of the alleged incidents happened to occur

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Please feel -- feel free to refer --

between April 22nd and April 23rd of 2019.

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A

Just for the record, that's not indicated in

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one of my reports.

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Detective McDuffie's report.

I'm going to have to refer to

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Q

Go ahead.

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A

Can you -- can you say the dates one more

Q

One of the alleged incidents occurred between

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time.

April 22nd to April 23rd of 2019.

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A

So I'm seeing March 23rd --

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Q

Got you.

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A

-- March 24th, May 25th.

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Q

Okay.

So in -- in her report she has

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March 23rd and March 24th and --

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MR. YAZDIYA:

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Your Honor, the State objects.

This is beyond the scope of what the State has

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asked.

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THE COURT:

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(Sidebar conference.)

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Come forward for a moment.

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BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

Okay.

Now, as it relates to this

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investigation you actually had an opportunity to

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interview Mr. Robinson, correct?

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A

Yes, sir.

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Q

And you had interviewed him on -- I guess that

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would have been June the 22nd of 2019?

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A

I believe that's correct, yes.

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Q

Okay.

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And you also collected evidence in this

matter, correct?

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A

Yes.

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Q

And you stated that you collected DNA samples

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taken from

, correct?

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A

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cheek, yes.

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Q

I collected samples of saliva from his [sic]

And when you collect those samples there's a

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certain property evidence form that you fill out for the

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chain of custody that you submit when you have collected

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this evidence, correct?

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A

Yes.

There's an evidence form that we submit

into our evidence with the -- with those items, yes.

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MR. SIMMONS:

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THE COURT:

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May I approach, Your Honor?
You may.

BY MR. SIMMONS:

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Q

I'm showing you what's been marked for

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purposes as Defense Exhibit 1.

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same documents.

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filled out with your signature for the collection sample

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of

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It's just two of the

Does that look like the form that you

sample?
A

Yes.

This is an evidence sheet that shows

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that I collected and submitted evidence that was taken

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from the victim by a Special Agent Casiotta.

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Q

Correct.

When you got -- that -- that was the

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form that you filled out prior to submitting it,

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correct?

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A

Yes, that's correct.

I submitted it with the

evidence.
Q

Okay.

And the time that you have on there

that you submitted it, what time would that be?

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A

1336, so 1:36 p.m.

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Q

So that's military time for 1:36 p.m.,

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correct?
A

Yes, sir.

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MR. SIMMONS:

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Defense 1, Your Honor.

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MR. YAZDIYA:

I'd like to move this in as

Your Honor, the State objects.

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If we could approach.

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THE COURT:

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You may approach.

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BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

So at 1:36 p.m. was when you received it or

would have entered it into the system at some point?
A

Uh-huh.

That's when I would have submitted it

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to the locker.

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time stamps on our electronic monitoring of our

I don't have any control over the system

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evidence.

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it in the locker.

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Q

That's just the time that I wrote when I put

Got you.

So at 1:36 was -- you took it from

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the mail or where you got it and you placed it in the

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locker room?

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A

Yes.

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Q

Now, at some point you also had an opportunity

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to again interview Mr. Robinson, correct?

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A

Yes, sir.

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Q

And during that interview you had an

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opportunity to collect DNA samples, correct?

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A

No, sir.

22

Q

You don't?

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A

I collected DNA samples on the first

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interview.
Q

Correct.

On --

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A

And you asked me if the second interview -- I

didn't collect any- --

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Q

No.

June 26th, the day after the incident,

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you had an opportunity to interview Mr. Robinson,

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correct?

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A

Yes, sir.

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Q

And during that interview on June 26th of 2019

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you collected DNA samples, correct?

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A

I collected saliva samples from his cheek,

yes.

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MR. SIMMONS:

Okay.

Your Honor, for purposes

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of this may we approach briefly?

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this question, may we approach briefly?

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THE COURT:

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(Sidebar conference.)

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You may.

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(The jury not present.)

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For purposes of

PROFFER
BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

Detective Mancini, back on the 26th of June,

again, you interviewed Mr. Robinson?

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A

That's correct.

23

Q

And you collected a saliva sample?

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A

Yes, sir.

25

Q

And you left with his saliva sample out of the

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interview, correct?

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A

Yes.

3

Q

And you left out with his saliva sample as

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well as an open unused sample, correct?

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A

As well as a -- what was that last part?

6

Q

As well as an open unused saliva sample.

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A

I don't recall that.

8

Q

And you never documented your collection or

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10

submission of this saliva sample, correct?
A

I can refer to my -- for one, I don't know if

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I submitted it or if Detective McDuffie submitted it.

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She was present with me during the collection.

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16

Q

So you don't recall if you filled out

documentation regarding the collection of the sample?
A

I can't recall if I did or if Detective

McDuffie did.

17

Q

Okay.

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A

I can refer to my report to see who -- who did

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that if it's in there.
Q

And you don't recall whether or not you exited

the room with his sample and an open unused sample?
A

I believe we may have had an unused sample,

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but I -- again, I can't recall without watching the

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interview.

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(Proffer concluded.)

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(Jury present.)
BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

Detective Mancini, again, back on June the

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26th of 2019 you had an opportunity to interview

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Mr. Robinson, correct?

7

A

Yes, sir.

8

Q

And during that interview you collected saliva

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samples from Mr. --

10

A

Yes, sir.

11

Q

And there was one open and unused saliva

12

sample that was not used, correct?

13

A

That's correct.

14

Q

And after taking his saliva sample you exited

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the interview room with the saliva sample?

16

A

That's correct.

17

Q

And after you came back into the room you did

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not have the sample in your possession?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

And Officer McDuffie was in the room the

21

entire time during the collection of the sample and also

22

after you exited the room, correct?

23

A

Yes, sir.

24

Q

And you never filled out any evidence receipt

25

as it relates to the collection or the I guess

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submission of that saliva sample, did you?

2

A

Not in the interview room, no, I did not.

3

Q

Did you ever -- did you ever sign one?

4

A

I don't know if myself or Detective McDuffie

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filled out the evidence form.

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7

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So you don't know when that form was filled

A

It would have been filled out after the

out?

8
9

Q

interview by myself or Detective McDuffie.

I'm not

sure.

11

Q

12

filled out?

13

A

No, sir.

14

Q

And after that evidence exited that room up

And you -- so you don't know what time it was

15

until the time that was filled out and submitted, we

16

don't have any account for it?

17

A

It would have been secured in my office in the

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detective division right outside the interview room

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where numerous other detectives were waiting.

20
21

Q

Got you.

So it was supposed to have been in

your office at that time?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

Okay.

Now, as it relates to this

24

investigation you never inquired as to whether

25

Mr. Robinson was at work or not during the time of these

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alleged incidents, did you?

2

A

I did not, no.

3

Q

And you never reviewed any surveillance

4

evidence?

5

A

There was none available.

6

Q

You never reviewed any RFID evidence?

7

A

No, sir, I did not.

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9

MR. YAZDIYA:
scope.

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Your Honor, this is outside the

The State objects.

THE COURT:

Overruled.

BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

You never listened to any jail calls of the

alleged victim?
A

I monitored some, but I primarily left that up

to Detective McDuffie to do.

16

Q

So you monitored some of the jail calls?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

Did you find any calls that was disturbing to

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you as it relates to the portion you monitored?

20

A

No, sir, I did not.

21

Q

What information would you have gathered from

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23

the calls?
MR. YAZDIYA:

Your Honor, if counsel could

24

repeat that question.

25

he said.

I wasn't sure exactly what

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6

BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

From the calls you monitored what information

were you able to gather from the calls?
A

Nothing that was of value to

the investigation.
Q

Now, based upon your investigation it was

7

suggested that you further investigate and speak to the

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alleged victim and to Mr. Robinson, correct?

9

A

No.

10

Q

It was suggested that you speak to

I never spoke to the alleged victim.

11

Mr. Robinson and the alleged victim at some point during

12

your investigation, correct?

13

A

I don't understand.

14

Q

By the state attorney, by those involved when

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16
17

It was suggested by whom?

you were investigating.
A

No.

It was never suggested that I speak to

the victim in this case.

18

Q

Can you review -- can you review your report?

19

A

I can.

20

Q

Okay.

21

A

Is there a specific portion of the report --

22

report you want me to review?

23

Q

September the 4th, 2019.

24

A

Is that the date of --

25

MR. YAZDIYA:

Your Honor --

24

1

A

-- the report?

2

MR. YAZDIYA:

3

THE COURT:

4

MR. YAZDIYA:

5

THE COURT:

6
7
8

-- I object.
Hold on.
I object.

This is improper.

Sustained.

BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

During your investigation did you have an

opportunity to contact Mr. Yazdiya?

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

And were you advised that interviews of both

11

parties should take place during the -- during the

12

investigation at that point?

13

MR. YAZDIYA:

14

State objects.

15

well.

16
17
18
19

THE COURT:

Once again, Your Honor, the

This is improper.

It's hearsay as

Sustained.

BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

You were in contact with the federal

investigators, correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And during the time frame of your

22

investigation, the federal officers were also conducting

23

an investigation?

24

A

They were assisting in our investigation, yes.

25

Q

Okay.

And at some point the federal officers

25

1

were going to make a determination of whether or not

2

they potentially were going to prosecute this case,

3

correct?

4

MR. YAZDIYA:

Objection, Your Honor.

This is

5

speculative as to what the federal investigators

6

were doing.

7
8

THE COURT:

(Sidebar conference.)

10

12
13

If y'all could

approach.

9

11

All right.

*

*

*

*

*

BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

Now, Detective Mancini, you never saw the

cloth evidence in this case?

14

A

I'm sorry.

15

Q

You never saw the cloth evidence in this case?

16

A

No, sir.

17

Q

Now, when you interviewed Mr. Robinson back on

Say that one more --

18

the 26th of 2019, June, he was on administrative leave,

19

correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And after June the 26th of 2019 Mr. Robinson

22

never returned back in an official capacity to work?

23

never came back to the building, correct?

He

24

A

To my knowledge, yes, that was's correct.

25

Q

And he never came back to the building until a

26

1

year later?

2

correct?

I guess that would be June or July of 2020,

3

MR. YAZDIYA:

4

THE COURT:

5

ask those questions.

6
7

Objection.

Relevance.

Overruled at that time.

You can

BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

And he never came back to the building again

8

until a year later sometime in June or July of 2020,

9

correct?

10

A

I can't tell you if he came in the building.

11

I can tell you the next time I saw Mr. Robinson was

12

July 20th, I believe, of 2020.

13
14

Q

But you were aware he was on administrative

leave and never worked again from that day?

15

A

Yes, that's correct.

16

Q

Now, you did meet with Detective McDuffie

17

regarding this investigation, correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

Okay.

20

I supervised her.
So all of her reports were reports that

you were aware of?

21

A

That's correct.

22

Q

Some of the information that she was able to

23

gather you were aware of as well?

24

A

Yes, sir.

25

Q

Now, this cloth that came from New York, you

27

1

didn't have any interaction with that, correct?

2

A

I didn't have any what?

3

Q

Any interaction with that cloth that came from

4

New York.

5

A

I did not, no, sir.

6

Q

And you never investigated or checked to see,

7

again, whether or not the dates of this alleged incident

8

Mr. Robinson was actually in the building?

9

A

I'm sorry.

10

Q

The dates that these incidents were alleged to

Say that again.

11

have occurred you never checked to see whether or not he

12

was in the building or working, did you?

13

A

If he was in the -- I mean, he was employed by

14

the Baker County Sheriff's Office during that time,

15

so --

16

Q

Correct.

You never checked to see whether he

17

was on the work schedule, whether that was his shift,

18

whether he was working, whether he was there or not

19

there, you never --

20
21
22

A

I did not, no, sir.
MR. SIMMONS:

nothing further.

23

THE COURT:

24

MR. YAZDIYA:

25

just a moment.

Okay.

I don't have anything --

Subject to recall, Your Honor.
Thank you, sir.

Any redirect?

Yes, Your Honor.

If I can have

28

1

THE COURT:

2

(Pause in the proceedings.)

3

MR. YAZDIYA:

4

You may.

If I can just have a minute,

Your Honor.

5

(Pause in the proceedings.)

6

(Recess taken.)

7

*

8
9
10

*

*

*

*

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. YAZDIYA:
Q

Lieutenant Mancini, can you describe to the

11

jury the process you go through when you collect saliva

12

samples from an individual.

13

A

Yes.

So you take cotton swabs essentially is

14

what they are.

15

usually use two.

16

the inside of the cheek of the person that you're

17

collecting the sample from numerous times on each cheek.

18

Then you put the swabs back into the paper sealing bag

19

that they come in.

20

You do all this of course while wearing gloves.

21

seal the bag containing the swabs with evidence tape in

22

front of the person that we're swabbing and then we

23

initial the tape.

24

It is later taken to the Florida Department of Law

25

Enforcement or a private lab in some situations for

We call them buccal swabs.

And you

That's the preferred method.

You swab

And seal them in a brown paper bag.
And we

And then we submit it into evidence.

29

1
2
3

analysis.
Q

That is done by the evidence custodian.
And when you take these saliva samples what

type of kit is used?

4

A

I'm sorry?

5

Q

What type of kit is used to take the saliva

6

sample?

7

Office?

8
9
10

A

Is this something issued by the Sheriff's

Yes.

evidence kit.

This is a Sheriff's Office issued
It's standard buccal swabs.

It's used by

many law enforcement agencies.

11

MR. YAZDIYA:

Your Honor, may the record

12

reflect I'm showing defense counsel State's Exhibit

13

A for identification purposes.

14

witness, Your Honor?

15

THE COURT:

16

May I approach the

You may.

BY MR. YAZDIYA:

17

Q

Lieutenant, do you recognize that?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

And what is that?

20

A

These are two buccal swabs containing the

21

defendant's DNA or saliva.

22

Q

Is your signature on that package?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

And is it dated?

25

A

It is.

June 26th, 2019.

30

1
2

Q

And is that the day that you took the buccal

swab of the defendant when you interviewed him?

3

A

Yes.

4

Q

Who else was with you at the time you did

A

Detective Morgan McDuffie.

5
6

that?

7
8

MR. YAZDIYA:

Your Honor, can I have just one

moment?

9

THE COURT:

10

MR. YAZDIYA:

You may.
Your Honor, I'd like to open

11

this if I may.

12

A

You want me to open it?

13

Q

Yeah.

14
15

MR. YAZDIYA:

Oh.

Thank you.

BY MR. YAZDIYA:

16

Q

Lieutenant, do you need some gloves?

17

A

Yeah.

18

Q

Well, just -- can you look at it clearly?

19

you see it?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

Okay.

22

You want me to remove it?

Do the items in there seem to be in the

same condition as when you put them in the package?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

And the package, does it seem to have been

25

Can

tampered -- other than you just opening it now, does it

31

1
2

seem to have been tampered, changed, or anything?
A

No.

I see where it was opened probably by the

3

Florida Department of Law Enforcement, the crime lab.

4

see that their tape is on there sealing it.

5

have been done after we submitted it for analysis.

6

Q

That would

So this would have been the package that would

7

have been sent to FDLE.

8

they would have opened to remove the items, then they

9

put it back in when they're done with their analysis,

10

I

And would it be correct to say

and they seal it again?

11

A

Correct.

12

Q

Other than that does the package seem to be in

13

the same condition?

14

A

Yes, sir.

15

Q

And it contains what you put in there

16

originally?

17

A

That's correct.

18

Q

The buccal swabs of the defendant?

19

A

Yes.

20

MR. YAZDIYA:

Your Honor, for the record, I'm

21

showing defense State's Exhibit B for

22

identification purposes.

23

approach?

24

THE COURT:

25

MR. YAZDIYA:

You may.

Your Honor, may I

You may.

Thank you, Your Honor.

32

1

BY MR. YAZDIYA:

2
3

Q

Lieutenant, this is State's Exhibit B for

identification purposes.

Do you recognize that as well?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

And what is that?

6

A

This was a saliva sample taken from Josh Powe.

7

This was taken by Special Agent Jay Combs with Homeland

8

Security.

9

Q

So you did not take this one?

10

A

I did not.

11

Q

Okay.

12

I just submitted it.

And do you recognize -- well, is your

signature on there?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

What is the date of that?

15

A

October 10th, 2019.

16

Q

And why is your name and your signature on it

17

if you're not the one who actually took those buccal

18

swabs of Mr. -- of Josh Powe?

19
20

A

Because I'm the one that's going to submit

them into evidence with the Sheriff's Office.

21

Q

And once you received it did you package it?

22

A

I packaged it in this paper bag, yes.

23

Q

If you could just open that as well.

24
25

you.

Maybe a little more.
A

Thank

Just look at it and --

It's another paper bag within the paper bag.

33

1

Q

Okay.

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

Okay.

4

A

I did not.

5

Q

So you received this package.

6
7
8
9
10

And is that what you had received?

And that one you did not open?

And where did

it come from?
A

It came from Special Agent Jay Combs with

Homeland Security investigations.
Q

So you received this package and then you

packaged it -- you packaged it here in Baker County?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

And then you signed it and you initialed it?

13

A

That's correct.

14

Q

And that was sent to FDLE as well?

15

A

Yes.

16

Q

And do you see the FDLE label and all that on

17

there as well?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

Okay.

20

Thank you.

MR. YAZDIYA:

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Your

21

Honor, for the record, I'm showing defense counsel

22

State's Exhibit C for identification purposes.

23

Mr. Simmons.

24
25

May I approach, Your Honor?

THE COURT:

You may.

34

1

BY MR. YAZDIYA:

2

Q

Lieutenant Mancini, I'm showing you State's

3

Exhibit C for identification purposes.

4

that package?

Do you recognize

5

A

I do.

6

Q

How do you recognize it?

7

A

I submitted this into evidence on November 6th

8

2019.

9

the victim.

10
11
12
13

It was a package containing saliva samples from

Special Agent Joseph Casiotta.
Q

16
17

And what is her name again on the package?

A

Yes.

Q

Are you able to spell that for the record,

please.
A

First name is

22
23

.

Last name

.

19

21

It's samples taken from

.

18

20

Is

it listed?

14
15

This was collected by Homeland Security

MR. YAZDIYA:

I thought you might want that.

BY MR. YAZDIYA:
Q

If you could please open that.

Thank you.

If

you can tell, what are those items?
A

So this was the envelope that was given to me.

24

It's addressed to me, Sergeant Mancini.

25

contained these contents (indicating).

This is what
On the back of

35

1

this envelope I wrote, "This package was opened by

2

D. Mancini on 11/6/19 to inspect the contents, resealed

3

by D. Mancini."

4

Q

Those items in those two white envelopes?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

Those are what?

7

A

These are the standards, the saliva samples

8

from the victim.

9

Q

From the victim,

10

A

That's correct.

11

Q

So once your received that -- where was it

12
13

mailed from?
A

?

Do you recall?

It was hand-delivered from Special Agent

14

Casiotta to our detention center.

15

Sergeant Gainey at the time who handed it over to me

16

that morning.

17
18
19
20

Q

It was handed over to

Once you received those items what did you do

with them?
A

I opened and inspected to see what these were.

I did not open these (indicating).

21

Q

Right.

22

A

I resubmitted them into our evidence bags,

23

placed them in evidence and had them sent later to the

24

Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

25

Q

Once again, do you see the labels from FDLE on

36

1

there as well?

2

A

I do.

3

Q

So they received it?

4

A

That's correct.

5

Q

Okay.

6

If you could please put that back in

the package, I would appreciate it.

7

MR. YAZDIYA:

8

THE CLERK:

9

MR. YAZDIYA:

10

Yes, sir.
Thank you.

One moment, Your

(Pause in the proceedings.)

12

*

13

15

Madam Clerk.

Honor.

11

14

Thank you.

*

*

*

*

RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

Detective Mancini, you just testified that you

16

submitted into evidence the saliva sample of

17

Mr. Robinson, correct?

18

A

That's correct.

19

Q

And you submitted into evidence the saliva

20

sample of

21

correctly?

if I'm pronouncing that

22

A

The victim, yes.

23

Q

Okay.

24
25

And you submitted into evidence the

sample from Mr. Josh Powe?
A

That's correct.

37

1

Q

As it relates to

, I approached

2

you previously where you filled out a property -- an

3

evidence receipt, correct?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

And you submitted that at 1:36, 1336 would be

6

1:36 p.m. -- on that date of November the 6th, correct?

7

A

I believe so, yes.

8

Q

As it relates to

9
10
11
12
13

.

As it

relates to Mr. Robinson you never submitted property -evidence and what time it was submitted, correct?
A

I don't have the sheet, so I don't know.

haven't seen that evidence sheet.
Q

You never seen the evidence sheet of all of

14

the evidence you submitted in this case, this sheet

15

(indicating)?

16
17

I

A

So I submitted evidence on different dates, so

you only showed me one from November 6th with

18

.

19

Q

Correct.

20

A

If you have the one, I haven't got a chance to

21

see it.

22

review it before I say anything else.

So if you have that, I would like to be able to

23

Q

I do not have one from you for Mr. Robinson.

24

A

Okay.

25

Q

As it relates to Mr. Josh Powe as well, I do

38

1

not have one for you.

2

as it relates to that as well?

3
4
5
6
7

A

Did you submit an evidence sheet

I should have submitted one with every piece

of evidence.
Q

You also submitted the interview of

Mr. Robinson, correct?
A

I don't know if I submitted that, if it was

8

myself or Detective McDuffie.

9

again, I'd have to see the evidence bag or the list.

10
11

MR. SIMMONS:

14

May I -- may I approach, Your

Honor?

12
13

I'd have to -- once

THE COURT:

You may.

BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

I'm just showing you for identification

15

purposes for the Defense 2, and do you recognize that

16

submission of that evidence?

17

correct?

That's your signature,

18

A

Yes, sir.

19

Q

And you submitted that and you signed, put the

20

time, 9:15 a.m., and your signature of when you put it

21

into the system and you signed down there as well,

22

correct?

23

A

That's correct.

24

Q

Okay.

25

And each evidence that's submitted

comes with a receipt form of when it's submitted and to

39

1

whom it's submitted, correct?

2

A

Yes, it should.

3

Q

And as it relates to Mr. Robinson and as it

4

relates to Mr. Powe, you state -- you're stating that

5

you submitted this form as well with those, correct?

6

A

I'm saying I should have.

7

of it now.

8

maintain those, though.

9

Q

So there should be one in evidence.

MR. SIMMONS:

11

THE COURT:

12

MR. YAZDIYA:
it is.

May I approach, Your Honor?
You may.
If you could identify which one

That's all.

14

MR. SIMMONS:

It's State's 1.

15

MR. YAZDIYA:

Okay.

16
17
18

I don't

Got you.

10

13

I don't have a copy

Thank you.

BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

Now, as it relates to the sample from

Mr. Robinson, you filled that out, correct?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

And it says "from" and you have your name,

21

Mancini?

22

A

Yes, sir.

23

Q

And it should say "to" and should have been

24

where the evidence was, but you put the date there,

25

correct?

40

1

A

I put the date in evidence.

2

Q

In evidence.

Okay.

Now, this is the -- I

3

guess the chain of custody of that evidence.

4

the different dates of when it's supposed to be filled

5

out and when it's taken to and fro, correct?

And it has

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

And on this particular piece of evidence

8

besides that one date there is no other date of when it

9

was taken to and fro, correct?

10

A

Not on the bag itself that I see.

If I can --

11

so there's writing on the bag that I'm not -- that I

12

didn't write, so I'm not familiar, but, no, as far as

13

the chain of custody for BCSO I don't see any other --

14

any other chain of custody notes.

15

MR. SIMMONS:

16

anything further.

17

*

18
19

Thank you.

*

*

*

-

-

-

I don't have

*

JOSHUA POWE,

20

having been produced and first duly sworn as a witness,

21

and having responded "I do" to the oath, testified as

22

follows:

23

THE COURT:

24

MR. YAZDIYA:

25

THE COURT:

Thank you, sir.

Please be seated.

May I proceed, Your Honor?
You may.

41

1

MR. YAZDIYA:

2
3

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. YAZDIYA:

4
5

Thank you.

Q

If you can please state your name for the

record.

6

A

It's Joshua Douglas Powe.

7

Q

Mr. Powe, what is your occupation?

8

A

I'm an entrepreneur and investor.

9

founded a company -- well, not so recently.

Recently I
About 15

10

years ago I should say I founded a company in the data

11

analytics and technology space, a company that was

12

dedicated to school education, so working with schools

13

around the country.

14

my role as CEO of that company to an executive chairman

15

role.

16

company.

And recently I did transition from

And I still act as a board member for the

17

Q

And what state do you live in?

18

A

I live in New York State.

19

Q

And how long have you lived in New York?

20

A

I've lived in New York -- well, I -- I

21

essentially grew up in New York, but I did live -- I've

22

lived in New York for approximately -- I would say since

23

around 2007 or so.

24

Florida.

25

Q

Okay.

Prior to that I lived in Miami,

So you've been there quite a while in

42

1

New York?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

Can you please tell the jury your education.

4

A

Absolutely.

I am a graduate of Harvard

5

University, the undergraduate program, history of

6

science department, so to say I have a bachelor's degree

7

in the history of science from Harvard.

8

graduate degree.

9
10
11

Q

I don't have a

And how long ago did you found this company

you said that you're the CEO of?
A

Yeah.

The company was -- went through various

12

iterations, but we traced the founding date to about

13

2010 when it was formally incorporated.

14

started working on the idea around 2004.

15

before that.

16

it sort of formally came together.
Q

Thank you so much, Mr. Powe.

18

A

Sure.

19

Q

Do you -- do you know a
?

21

A

Tough to pronounce, but yes.

22

Q

Yes.

23

So quite a bit

It was sort of in an R and D phase before

17

20

I really got

And I probably mispronounced it.

apologize if I did.

24

A

I'm sorry.

25

Q

Yes, sir.

How long have you known her?
Can you repeat the question.
How long have you known her?

I

43

1
2

A

since approximately

2003 or 2004 probably when we met.

3

Q

4

A

5

Q

6

I've known

And where did you meet her?
.
And approximately when -- when did you say

that was, 2003?

7

A

Approximately.

8

Q

And how did you know her?

9

A

I -- I met her probably just -- I don't

10

remember the exact venue, but -- but it was in a social

11

setting that -- that we met probably at a restaurant,

12

but I did meet her initially.

13

when she became my -- my roommate due to a variety of

14

circumstances somewhat unexpected, but we did live

15

together as platonic roommates for some time, probably

16

six months or maybe a bit longer.

And then there was a time

17

Q

And that was in

18

A

Yes,

19

Q

So would it be fair to say you've known

20

?

for approximately 20 years?

21

A

That's about right, yes.

22

Q

Do you still keep in touch with her?

23

A

I do on occasion, yes.

24

Q

And is she someone that you consider a friend

25

or an acquaintance?

44

1

A

Yeah.

No.

I would definitely consider her a

2

friend, a good friend.

3

well despite the fact that we haven't seen each other in

4

actually quite some time face-to-face I mean.

5

Q

I think we know each other quite

And is she someone that would call you from

6

time to time or you would call her from time to time to

7

talk about different things?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

Were you aware that at some point she became a

10

detainee here at the Baker County Jail?

11

A

I was made aware of that, yes.

12

Q

While she was a detainee at the jail did you

13

receive phone calls from her?

14

A

I did.

15

Q

At some point did you receive a package in the

16

mail from

?

17

A

Yes, I did.

18

Q

Did you receive a phone call from

19

before receiving this package?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

So were you aware you would be getting

22

something in the mail?

23

A

I was aware, yes.

24

Q

Can you describe what this package looked like

25

when you received it.

45

1

A

Yeah.

The package was sort of a large

2

envelope.

3

tan in color from what I recall.

4

documents inside the package.

5

envelope kind of like this (indicating).

6
7

It had a number of

So it was a thick

Q

Do you remember who the envelope was addressed

A

Yeah.

to?

8
9

It was I would say kind of a manila envelope,

My recollection it was addressed to

Attorney Joshua Powe.

10

Q

Are you an attorney?

11

A

No, I am not.

12

Q

So did it come across as if it were addressed

13

as legal mail?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

You said it had papers in it?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

When you first received it -- when you first

18

received it did you even open it?

19
20

A

received it, no.

21
22

Q

25

And when you received this package was it at

your home, at your office, where did you receive it?

23
24

I don't recall opening it when I first

A

It was received at my office in New York City,

Q

In New York City?

yeah.

46

1

A

Uh-huh.

2

Q

And where is that in New York City at the

3
4
5

time?

I know -A

Yeah.

At the time it was on -- that office

was located on 5th Avenue around 14th Street.

6

Q

Okay.

7

A

The address was 85th Avenue at the time.

8

Q

And when you received it what did you do with

9
10
11
12
13

this package?
A

I took the package home in my briefcase and

stored it in what was in my mind a secure location.
Q

So would it be fair to say it was always in

your care and custody?

14

A

Yes.

15

Q

It was always in a safe place?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

Did you eventually get contacted by law

18

enforcement?

19

A

I did, yeah.

20

Q

And do you recall why you were contacted by

21
22
23

law enforcement?
A

Yes, I do.

Essentially they wanted to take

possession of the package that I had received.

24

Q

Did you eventually meet with law enforcement?

25

A

I did.

47

1
2

Q

Do you recall how many agents or law

enforcement agents --

3

A

I believe --

4

Q

-- arrived?

5

A

Yeah.

6

I believe there were two.

This was

quite some time ago.

7

Q

I know.

8

A

But if memory serves, I -- I think there were

9

two law enforcement officers that visited my apartment

10

in Brooklyn at the time to take possession of the

11

package.

12
13
14
15
16

Q

I know it's been some time.

Do you recall

approximately when that may have taken place roughly?
A

I -- I really don't, but it was probably a

couple of months after I received the package.
Q

Okay.

Okay.

And how long ago was that?

17

mean, like what year would you say that was in if

18

you remember --

19
20

A

I mean, it was probably around five years ago

or so, so quite --

21

Q

Okay.

22

A

-- quite awhile.

23

Q

When the agents arrived did they take

24
25

possession of this package?
A

I

Yes.

48

1
2

Q

Did you later get contacted again by law

enforcement at a later date?

3

A

I did, yes.

4

Q

And do you remember -- we have law enforcement

5

coming to get the package.

6

again by law enforcement?

7

would you say roughly?

8
9

A

When did you get contacted
How much time had elapsed

It probably was a couple months after --

not -- or maybe -- maybe weeks, but it wasn't -- it

10

wasn't immediately after from my -- my recollection,

11

but, again, a little bit -- I don't have a concrete

12

recollection of the exact timeline there.

13

Q

But a few weeks later would be fair to say?

14

A

I -- something along those lines, yes.

15

Q

And what was the purpose for law enforcement

16
17

contacting you the second time?
A

From my -- what I recall it -- they explained

18

that they needed to take a DNA sample from me in order

19

to -- I think the phrase they -- they used was rule out

20

my DNA from being on the sample.

21

they -- that they said at the time that there was DNA

22

found at the sample or on the sample in question.

I do recall that

23

Q

So let me ask --

24

A

So they -- yeah.

25

Q

-- you this, how did they take the sample from

49

1
2

you?
A

I -- from my -- my memory I think it was a

3

cheek swab sample maybe with like a Q-tip.

4

along --

Something

5

Q

Okay.

6

A

-- those lines.

7

Q

And when they arrived to do that did you

8
9

comply with that?
A

Yes.

10

MR. YAZDIYA:

11

(Pause in the proceedings.)

12

MR. YAZDIYA:

One moment, Your Honor.

Your Honor, I'm going to show --

13

I'm showing the defense State's Exhibit D for

14

identification purposes.

15

Mr. Barney -- if I can have one moment, Your Honor.

16

One moment, Judge.

Mr. Simmons and

17

(Pause in the proceedings.)

18

MR. YAZDIYA:

19

the witness.

20

THE COURT:

21

MR. YAZDIYA:

22
23

Your Honor, if I may approach

You may.
For the record, I'm showing

State's Exhibit D for identification purposes.
BY MR. YAZDIYA:

24

Q

Mr. Powe, am I pronouncing that correctly?

25

A

Yeah.

50

1

Q

Okay.

2

A

That's right.

3

Q

If you can just hold this and tell me do you

4

recognize this.

5
6

A

Yeah.

That looks like the envelope that I

referred to earlier.

7

Q

And whose name is that envelope addressed to?

8

A

Attorney Josh Powe.

9

Q

Once again, you're not an attorney?

10

A

No.

11

Q

But it was sent to you?

12

A

It was.

13

Q

And who is this sent to you from?

Actually --

14

it actually has the name up there if you can read that

15

name.

16

A

It's a little bit cut off, but it looks like

17
18

,

, and then it has a

number.

19

Q

Is

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

You would call her or people would call her?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

And the address on there, what city is that

24
25

her nickname?

that it came from?
A

It looks like it says CBD, but it's Macclenny,

51

1
2
3
4

Florida.
Q

And this one, if you could -- the suite that

it was sent to and the city for you.
A

Yeah.

That's LinkIt!, that's the name of my

5

company, 85th Avenue, Suite 1101.

6

our address at the time.

7

Q

That would have been

When you received this package did it look

8

like this other than the tape on the side, but does it

9

look like it's been altered or anything?

10

A

11

this point.

12

looks like the package that I remember.

13

Q

No.

I mean, it's obviously very wrinkled at
I don't recall that, but other than that it

Is this the package that you gave to the --

14

two agents when you arrived in, I believe, your office

15

or your home?

16
17

A

20
21

I -- yeah.

I -- I certainly believe that it is.

18
19

That would have been at my home.

MR. YAZDIYA:

One moment, Your Honor.

Madam

Clerk, thank you for that.
BY MR. YAZDIYA:
Q

Mr. Powe, you had mentioned that you had

22

received a phone call from

23

know Ms. -- she has -- her name's a little bit difficult

24

to pronounce.

25

gave it to law enforcement, why did you do all this?

.

When you received this package and you

I

52

1

A

Well, I mean, first of all, I -- I -- I had

2

every interest in complying with law enforcement, but I

3

think --

4

Q

Of course.

5

A

-- more -- more broadly I -- I did consider

6

Sandra a friend.

7

I credit a lot of my success to a willingness to ask for

8

help when I needed it.

9

needed help before.

And I kind of -- well, in my mind I --

I've been in a position where I

And I think in this case she -- she

10

needed help.

And I felt that I was in a position to --

11

to help her.

I would want someone to help me if I were

12

in that position, so it just seemed like the right thing

13

to do.

14

MR. YAZDIYA:

Thank you.

I don't -- I don't

15

have any further questions at this point.

16

the witness, Your Honor.

17

*

18

THE COURT:

19
20

*

*

*

I tender

*

Mr. Simmons, sir, you can proceed.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SIMMONS:

21

Q

Good afternoon, Mr. Powe.

22

A

Good afternoon.

23

Q

Again, I know you said you're from the New

24
25

York, New Jersey area?
A

(Nods head.)

53

1

Q

You grew up in Patterson, New Jersey, I think?

2

A

Born in Patterson, New Jersey.

Left there

3

when I was about two years old, so really probably grew

4

up in New York more than Patterson, but, yes, you're

5

right.

6

Q

Yeah.

I'm from Jersey as well.

Now, you

7

stated that you were in New York I guess the later part

8

of 2010 on or '12 on I believe?

9

A

Yeah.

Probably the later part of 2000- --

10

yeah, 2008 on I was in New York most of the time.

11

had some ties to Florida, so I was traveling back here

12

and there.

13
14

Q

Got you.

Still

And there was a ten-year gap where

you hadn't heard anything from

, correct?

15

A

Approximately.

16

Q

And at some point you got a phone call from

17

her from the jail --

18

A

Uh-huh.

19

Q

-- is that correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And she insisted your help because she made

22

you aware she was facing deportation?

23

A

That's right.

24

Q

Okay.

25

And during the time that she was in

jail there was about 30 to 60 calls from the jail

54

1

between --

2

MR. YAZDIYA:

3

Q

-- yourself and her, correct?

4

MR. YAZDIYA:

5

Facts not in evidence and

there's no relevance to this.

6

THE COURT:

7
8

Your Honor, objection.

question.

Overruled.

I'll allow this

We'll see where you want to --

BY MR. SIMMONS:

9

Q

During the time that she was in jail up until

10

her release there was between 30 to 60 jail calls that

11

you two communicated, correct?

12

A

Well, I can't speak to the number of calls,

13

but we spoke on a number of occasions, I'll -- I'll say

14

that.

15

doesn't seem implausible.

16
17

I certainly wasn't counting at the time, but that

Q

And you assisted her by helping her get an

attorney as well, correct?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

Now, at some point during this time frame you

20

also received evidence from an attorney from Florida,

21

correct?

22
23
24
25

A

I don't recall that specifically.
MR. YAZDIYA:

Objection, Your Honor.

Relevance.
THE COURT:

Overruled.

The question's been

55

1
2

posed and the answer's been provided at this point.
BY MR. SIMMONS:

3

Q

Okay.

4

A

I don't specifically recall that, no.

5

Q

During your -- I guess during her --

You said you don't recall that?

You --

6

communication with her you assisted I guess her son to

7

come down to her proceedings, correct?

8
9

MR. YAZDIYA:
relevance.

10
11

THE COURT:

MR. SIMMONS:

13

THE COURT:

MR. SIMMONS:

16

THE COURT:

18
19

I guess -At the bench, do you want to be

heard or no?

15

17

Do you want to be heard on that,

Mr. Simmons, up at the bench or no?

12

14

Your Honor, once again,

No, I don't want to be heard.
Okay.

Sustained.

BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

After she I guess got released you two still

have been in contact throughout, correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And you -- you still assisted her after her

22
23

release as well?
A

I mean, I think as a -- as a friend, yes.

24

mean, I -- I'm not sure what you mean by "assisting"

25

her, but --

I

56

1

Q

I mean, people need help.

2

were in that position.

3

if you can, like help them do things?

Like you said, you

You'd help them out financially

4

A

Yeah, I suppose so.

5

Q

Okay.

And just going back, the first time you

6

ever spoke to her from the jail that was when she made

7

you aware of her status of facing deportation and

8

needing your assistance and that's how she got back in

9

contact with you?

10

A

11
12

Yes, as far as I recall.
MR. SIMMONS:

him, Your Honor.

13

*

14
15

I don't have nothing more for
Subject to recall.
*

*

*

-

-

-

*

SPECIAL AGENT JEROME COMBS, JR.,

16

having been produced and first duly sworn as a witness,

17

and having responded "I do" to the oath, testified as

18

follows:

19

THE COURT:

20

THE WITNESS:

21

THE COURT:

22

MR. YAZDIYA:

23

THE COURT:

24
25

Thank you, sir.

Please be seated.

Thank you.
Thank you.
May I proceed, Your Honor?
You may.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

57

1

BY MR. YAZDIYA:

2

Q

If you could please state your name.

3

A

Sure.

4

Q

And what is your current occupation?

5

A

I'm a special agent with the U.S. Department

6

Jerome Combs, Jr.

of Homeland Security, Office of Inspector General.

7

Q

How long have you been in that position?

8

A

I have been with the DHS OIG -- that's the

9
10

acronym we use for our -- our agency -- since
approximately June of 2018.

11

Q

And what state do you work in?

12

A

Our office is located in New Jersey.

13

Q

Can you explain to the jury what are your

14
15

current duties and responsibilities.
A

So we are generally an internal affairs group

16

for all of the agencies that fall under the umbrella of

17

Homeland Security.

18

cases because they don't have their own outside

19

investigators, so all those cases get sent to us.

20

generally we do anything -- anything that involves the

21

Homeland Security nexus is what we could potentially be

22

involved in.

In addition to that we also do FEMA

So

23

Q

Can you tell the jury your education.

24

A

I have a bachelor's in science in criminal

25

justice from St. Joseph's University in Philadelphia,

58

1
2
3
4

Pennsylvania.
Q

And can you also tell the jury your work

experience before your -- your current position.
A

Sure.

After graduating from college in 2005,

5

I was hired by U.S. Secret Service as a uniformed

6

officer where I worked in Washington, D.C.

7

for approximately -- in that position for approximately

8

three and a half years.

9

the U.S. Secret Service.

I was there

I became a special agent with
And I was then transferred to

10

Brooklyn, New York, and worked there until approximately

11

April of 2016 where I left the U.S. Secret Service and

12

went to work for the U.S. Department of Education,

13

Office of Inspector General.

14
15

Q

And then in June of 2018 until the present

you've been with Department of Homeland Security?

16

A

Correct.

17

Q

Thank you, Agent.

18
19

Can you explain to the jury

what type of training you had in your career.
A

Sure.

So I've gone through the federal law

20

enforcement training center which is in Glynco, Georgia.

21

I went through both the uniform police training program

22

and also the criminal investigative training program.

23

Once I transitioned over to the -- my job with the U.S.

24

Department of Education, Office of Inspector General, I

25

went through what's called a transitional training

59

1

program where it's basically -- when you transfer from a

2

larger agency like the U.S. Secret Service to a smaller

3

Office of Inspector General, it's more of a training

4

program geared towards an OIG-type of position.

5

Q

Agent Combs, what does OIG stand for?

6

A

That stands for the Office of Inspector

7
8
9
10

General.
Q

And are you also involved in training other

individuals?
A

So I -- we'll -- sometimes we'll assist other

11

agents in my office.

12

will assist other agents with support or assistance as

13

needed.

14
15

Q

Thank you.

I'm not a supervisory agent, but I

Let me take you, Agent Combs, to

July 12th of 2019?

16

A

Okay.

17

Q

Almost five years ago.

18
19

Can you tell the jury

how you got involved in this case.
A

Sure.

I was contacted that morning by my

20

supervisor at the time, Mr. Bryan McCarthy.

21

supervisor at the time.

22

had been asked by the Orlando office to coordinate and

23

pick up some potential evidence and potentially mail it

24

back down or ship it back down to the Orlando office.

25

Q

He was my

And he called me to say that we

Once you received that call what did you do

60

1
2

next?
A

That -- I spoke with another agent at my

3

office who is now retired, Mr. Thomas Adams.

4

spoke about what eventually would end up being --

5

coordinating with Mr. -- another person in the case,

6

Mr. Joshua Powe, meet up with him, and obtain potential

7

evidence that we had been asked to -- to ascertain.

He and I

8

Q

Did you also confer with agent Edgardo Rosado?

9

A

We did.

We also -- that morning we spoke

10

with -- I don't recall if it was me specifically or if

11

it was Mr. Thomas Adams, but we reached out to

12

Mr. Rosado to find out, okay, please walk us through

13

what you specifically would like us to do here.

14
15
16

Q

And what was it your understanding that you

were directed to do?
A

It was my understanding that we were going to

17

go and coordinate with Mr. Joshua Powe, pick up an item

18

from him, and then at that point we would -- it would be

19

shipped to either Mr. Rosado in Florida or it was going

20

to be shipped to the Florida Department of Law

21

Enforcement, FDLE.

22

Q

Did you eventually meet with Mr. Josh Powe?

23

A

We did.

24

Q

And when you went to meet with Mr. Powe was

25

anyone with you?

61

1
2

A

Mr. Adams was with me, Thomas Adams, the other

agent from my office.

3

Q

The other agent?

4

A

Yes, sir.

5

Q

Okay.

6

And it was your understanding Mr. Powe

was in possession of an item?

7

A

Yes.

8

Q

When you met with Mr. Powe do you recall where

9
10

you went?
A

I believe we were just outside of his

11

residence.

12

there may have been a table just outside of his

13

residence but we sat down briefly.

14

as a law enforcement officer and explained the reason

15

why we were there today.

16

Mr. Powe provided us with this manila envelope that had

17

an unknown white item within it that we picked up from

18

him and we subsequently later on that day shipped down

19

to Mr. Rosado down in Orlando.

20
21
22
23

Q

I believe we sat down just outside of --

I identified myself

And that's where eventually

When you met with Mr. Powe what city and state

was that in?
A

I believe it was -- I believe it was Brooklyn,

New York.

24

Q

And you described this as a manila envelope?

25

A

Yes.

62

1
2

Q

Did you actually look in the envelope or open

the envelope?

3

A

So the envelope -- we opened the envelope.

4

Inside of it was a -- what appeared to be a plastic bag

5

or a plastic pouch.

And inside that pouch was an

6

unknown white item.

I don't know if it was fabric.

7

did not open that plastic pouch that was inside of the

8

manila envelope.

9

MR. YAZDIYA:

10

I

If I may have just a moment,

Your Honor.

11

THE COURT:

12

You may.

Gentlemen.

Gentlemen,

the mic will pick up your -- there's buttons there.

13

MR. YAZDIYA:

If I could approach the witness

14

and I'll be approaching with State's Exhibit D for

15

identification purposes.

16
17

THE COURT:

You may.

BY MR. YAZDIYA:

18

Q

Agent Combs, do you recognize this item?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

And what is this item?

A

This is the manila envelope that we had

21
22
23
24
25

How do you recognize

it?

received from Josh Powe.
Q

Okay.

Does it look to be -- I know it's

several years old, but does it look to be in the same

63

1

condition?

2

A

About.

3

Q

And it is addressed to who?

4

A

It says what appears to be Attorney Josh Powe.

5

Q

And are you able to make out who the envelope

6

is from, who sent it?

7

A

I'll do my best to --

8

Q

Go for it.

9

A

With the pronunciation.

10

Q

Go for it.

11

A

12
13

and it says "ICE."
Q

ICE.

Okay.

And this item, you said you

14

actually opened this when you retrieved it from

15

Mr. Powe?

16

A

17

of it.

18

actually sealed or if -- if it was already opened.

19

don't -- I don't recall.

So I don't recall -- I mean, I looked inside
I don't know -- I don't recall if it was
I

20

Q

But you were able to see the items inside?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

Do you recognize this item?

23

A

That appears to be the unknown white item --

24
25

Correct.

white item that was inside the manila envelope.
Q

Does this seem to be in the same condition it

64

1

was when you retrieved it from Mr. Powe way back in

2

2019?

3

A

It appears, yes, sir.

4

Q

And what did you do with this item you said

5
6

again when you received it?
A

So we -- we took the item from Mr. Powe.

At

7

that point I placed it into a -- in a bag that I had.

8

was carrying some other files that day.

9

went -- from there I went to a meeting with the New York

10

And then I

Police Department for a separate case.

11

Q

Okay.

12

A

Had a meeting, went from there to lunch with

13

Thomas Adams.

14

went to the UPS store and shipped it down to Mr. --

15

Agent Rosado, I believe, in Orlando.

16

Q

And then we went to -- after lunch we

Was the item in your care and custody, your

17

control, until you shipped it from the UPS store to

18

Agent Rosado.

19

A

It was.

20

Mr. Thomas Adams.

21

control.

22
23
24
25

Q

It was either with myself or with
Between the two of us it was in our

And did you mail it through UPS the same day

you had received it from Mr. Powe?
A

We did.
MR. YAZDIYA:

I

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Your

65

1

Honor, for the record I'm showing State's Exhibit F

2

for identification purposes.

3

THE CLERK:

4

MR. YAZDIYA:

5

THE CLERK:

6

MR. YAZDIYA:

7

last one was D.

8

THE CLERK:

9

MR. YAZDIYA:

10

would be E.

11

you, Madam Clerk.

It's E.
No objection from the defense.
It should be E.
Oh.

Is it E?

I thought the

I could be wrong.
The last one was D.
The last one was D.

You're right.

So this

This will be E.

Thank

12

THE CLERK:

Uh-huh.

13

THE COURT:

So State's E for identification is

14

the one that the defense saw or has seen?

15

MR. SIMMONS:

16

THE COURT:

17

MR. YAZDIYA:

18

Okay.

Thank you.

Yes, Your Honor.

If I may

approach?

19
20

Correct, Your Honor.

THE COURT:

Yes.

BY MR. YAZDIYA:

21

Q

Agent Combs, you do you recognize this item?

22

A

Yes, sir.

23

Q

You can take it.

24

A

This is a copy of UPS shipping receipt that

25

And what is that?

was used to transfer or to ship -- I believe this was

66

1

the -- I believe it was the unknown white item I

2

believe.

3

Q

And is your name on that item?

4

A

Yes, it is.

5

Q

On the -- on the UPS receipt?

6

A

It is.

7

Q

Who is it addressed to?

8

A

It's addressed to Ed Rosado who was an agent

9
10
11

with our agency in Orlando, Florida.
Q

So you mailed it to -- through UPS to Agent

Rosado in Florida?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

Does that UPS receipt seem to be in the same

14

condition, same markings and everything as when you sent

15

it on that day?

16
17
18

A

Yes.
MR. YAZDIYA:

moved into evidence.

19

MR. SIMMONS:

20

THE COURT:

21

Your Honor, I'd ask that this be

No objection, Your Honor.
Without objection State's E for

identification will be moved in --

22

THE CLERK:

Number one.

23

THE COURT:

That's fine.

24
25

Number 1.

-- as State's

67

1
2

(State's Exhibit No. 1 was received in
evidence.)

3
4

MR. YAZDIYA:

If I can publish this to the

jury as well, Your Honor.

5

THE COURT:

6

MR. YAZDIYA:

7

(Pause in the proceedings.)

8

MR. YAZDIYA:

9
10
11

You may.
Thank you, Your Honor.

Thank you.

One moment, Your

Honor.
BY MR. YAZDIYA:
Q

Agent Combs, if I could also direct you to

12

October 8th, of 2019.

13

interaction with Mr. Josh Powe?

Did you also have another

14

A

We did.

15

Q

What was the purpose of that?

16

A

The purpose was to obtain -- obtain a DNA

17

sample for Mr. Powe and then the same thing, once we had

18

a DNA sample to transfer it down to the Orl- -- to the

19

Orlando office.

20

Q

Was Mr. Powe contacted about this?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And did you meet with Mr. Powe?

23

A

We did.

24
25

We met at a coffee shop in Manhattan

if I recall correctly.
Q

Do you remember who the agent or if another

68

1

agent went with you?

2

A

Yes, Agent Steven Sang.

3

Q

And you met him you said at a coffee shop.

4

Where at?

What city?

5

A

I believe it was in Manhattan, sir.

6

Q

Manhattan?

7

A

Yes, New York City.

8

Q

And did you also collect a cheek swab from him

9

as well?

10

A

We did.

11

Q

Can you explain to the jury the process that

12

you use when you do that.

13

someone?

14

A

Sure.

How do you obtain that from

Well -- well, the first thing we did

15

was after identifying ourselves again to -- to Mr. Powe,

16

we obtained consent.

17

provide us with a DNA sample, which he did.

18

the consent form.

19

referred to as a DNA kit, which is essentially -- it's a

20

kit that has a few items in it.

21

kit, which is a cheek swab that goes inside of a

22

person's mouth and then that gets placed into an

23

envelope.

24

shipped down to Mr. Ed Rosado -- I believe it was Ed

25

Rosado in Orlando.

We asked him if he'd be willing to
He did sign

And then at that point we have what's

It has the actual DNA

And then that envelope is what we ultimately

69

1
2

Q

When you met with Mr. Powe did you have one of

these DNA kits to use?

3

A

We did.

4

Q

And did you go through the procedures that you

5

just outlined to the jury?

6

A

7

We did.
MR. YAZDIYA:

Your Honor, I'd like to approach

8

with State's Exhibit B for identification purposes.

9

Mr. Simmons.

10

(Pause in the proceedings.)

11

MR. YAZDIYA:

12

the witness again.

13
14

Your Honor, if I may approach

THE COURT:

You may.

BY MR. YAZDIYA:

15

Q

16

B.

17

package?

Agent Combs, I'm showing you State's Exhibit

First of all, this package -- do you recognize this

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

Yes, you may.

20

A

This is an evidence bag that was used to -- to

21

This -- may I touch the envelope?

ship, I believe, it was the DNA kit down to Ed Rosado.

22

Q

And is your signature and name on it?

23

A

Yes, it is.

24

Q

And what is the date?

25

A

Date and time of recovery is listed as

70

1
2
3

October 8th, 2019.
Q

So does that package look like it's in the

same substantial condition as it was when you sealed it?

4

A

It does.

5

Q

If I can see it for just a moment.

6

And you

said this was sent to Agent Rosado in Florida, correct?

7

A

Yes, sir.

8

Q

And do you recognize this -- if you like I can

9

pull it for you.

Do you recognize this item?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

And what is this item?

12

A

That is the white envelope that the DNA kit

13

was used to -- it was placed into there and then shipped

14

to Agent Rosado.

15
16

Q

And this would have been placed -- the DNA kit

would have been placed in this white envelope by you?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

Does the envelope seem to be in the same

19

condition as when you sealed everything in there?

20

A

It does.

21

Q

And then you put this envelope in the envelope

22
23

that you marked and sent to Agent Rosado in Florida?
A

24
25

Yes.
MR. YAZDIYA:

you.

One moment.

Madam Clerk, thank

71

1
2
3

BY MR. YAZDIYA:
Q

Was Mr. Powe cooperative when you collected

his cheek swab?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

Once you collected the saliva sample and cheek

Yes, sir.

6

swab of Mr. Powe, was that always in your care and

7

custody as well?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

And you -- do you recall, where did you go

10
11
12
13
14
15

after you collected this?
A

From there we went if I recall back to my

office in Jersey City, New Jersey.
Q

And can you explain to the jury how did you

prepare the item to be shipped to Agent Rosado?
A

So at that point I went back to my office in

16

Jersey City, New Jersey.

17

the item in the -- I believe it was the brown evidence

18

bag that was previously shown.

19

it off via UPS to Mr. Rosado.

And at that point we placed

At that point we shipped

20

MR. YAZDIYA:

21

(Pause in the proceedings.)

22
23

One moment, Your Honor.

BY MR. YAZDIYA:
Q

Agent Combs, other than those two incidents of

24

one collecting from Mr. Powe the item he had received

25

and shipping it to Rosado and then also collecting the

72

1

saliva sample from Mr. Powe and once again shipping it

2

to Agent Rosado, did you have any other involvement in

3

this case?

4

A

5
6

No, sir.
MR. YAZDIYA:

witness.

Your Honor, I do tender the

Thank you, Agent Combs.

7

THE WITNESS:

8

THE COURT:

9

MR. SIMMONS:

Thank you.
Thank you.

Mr. Simmons.

Thank you, Your Honor.

10

(Pause in the proceedings.)

11

MR. SIMMONS:

12

THE COURT:

13
14

I appreciate it.

May it please the Court?
You may.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SIMMONS:

15

Q

Good afternoon, Agent Combs.

16

A

Good afternoon, sir.

17

Q

As it relates to this investigation you

18

received an envelope from Mr. Josh Powe, correct?

19

A

I'm sorry?

20

Q

You received an envelope from Mr. Josh Powe?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And that envelope was not thick.

23

It was very

thin, correct?

24

A

Yes, sir.

25

Q

And there was no documents, there was nothing

73

1

in it but just that piece of the plastic?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

And you didn't know what else came in the

4

envelope when it came -- when it got to him?

5

A

Correct.

6

Q

And it was already opened because he opened

7
8
9
10
11

and showed you what was in the envelope?
A

I believe so.

I don't recall exactly, but I

believe that was the case.
Q

Now, when you received the envelope you

originally wanted to send it to FDLE, correct?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

And you attempted to contact FDLE, but you

14

were unable to get ahold of anyone?

15

A

That's correct.

16

Q

And then you had -- subsequently had to send

17

it back down to Baker County Sheriff's Office?

18

A

I was -- I'm sorry, sir?

19

Q

You had to then send it to the Baker County

20

Sheriff's Office?

21

A

Well, I -- I believe we sent it to --

22

Q

Rosado?

23

A

-- Rosado, yes, sir.

24

Q

Okay.

25

Now, once the evidence left you, your

control, you don't know what happened to it?

74

1

A

That's correct.

2

MR. SIMMONS:

3

THE COURT:

4

May I approach, Your Honor?
You may.

BY MR. SIMMONS:

5

Q

I'm showing you the envelope that was

6

previously marked that you filled out as it relates

7

to -- that says Combs.

That's you, correct?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

And that's the envelope that you filled out?

10

A

Yes, sir.

11

Q

And there's a section on that bag that says

12

chain of custody.

13
14

A

Tell me what's the first line on it.

It says -- it says, from DHS OIG NYC, that's

my office, we're the New York office.

15

Q

Okay.

16

A

To DHS OIG ORL.

17

Q

Orlando.

18

That's the --

And that was when you sent it down

to Rosado --

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

-- because you were unable to get ahold of

22

A

Correct.

23

Q

And that would have been on October the 8th,

24

right?

25

A

21

FDLE?

Yes.

75

1
2
3
4

Q

And then after that, what's the next

indentation?
A

It says "DHS OIG ORL," which is -- my

understanding that's the DHS OIG Orlando office.

5

Q

Okay.

6

A

And then next to that it says "BCSO."

7

Q

And that's when Orlando sent it to the Baker

8

County Sheriff's Office?

9

A

That's my understanding.

10

Q

So it has a chain of custody chart to be

11

filled out in regards to each person that comes in

12

contact with it?

13

A

I believe so, yes, sir.

14

Q

And the two people were yourself and then the

15
16
17

Orlando office, correct?
MR. SIMMONS:

I don't have anything further,

Your Honor.

18

THE COURT:

19

MR. YAZDIYA:

20

*

21
22

Any redirect?
No, Your Honor.
*

*

*

-

-

-

*

SPECIAL AGENT EDGARDO ROSADO,

23

having been produced and first duly sworn as a witness,

24

and having responded "I do swear" to the oath, testified

25

as follows:

76

1

THE COURT:

2

THE WITNESS:

3

THE COURT:

Thank you, sir.

Please be seated.

Thank you, Your Honor.
And if you would, just adjust the

4

mic in the way that best works for you.

5

when you're ready.

6

MR. YAZDIYA:

7
8

State,

Thank you, Your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. YAZDIYA:

9

Q

If you could please state your name.

10

A

Yes.

Good afternoon.

My full name is

11

Edgardo, E-d-g-a-r-d-o, and my last name is Rosado,

12

R-o-s-a-d-o.

13

Q

And what is your current occupation?

14

A

I am currently a senior special agent with the

15

Department of Homeland Security, Office of Inspector

16

General.

17

operations program manager, which basically means that

18

I'm in charge of everything that has to do with covert

19

recordings of audio and video for our nationwide

20

program.

My current title is the national technical

21

Q

How many years have you been in this position?

22

A

In my current role or --

23

Q

In your current role.

24

A

-- employed?

25

My current role -- I've been in

my current role for three years.

Before that I worked

77

1

for the agency for about 18 years as a field agent.

2

started my career in San Juan, Puerto Rico, then moved

3

to Orlando, Florida.

4

headquarters in Washington, D.C.

5

Q

I

And since 2021 I've been in

In Washington, D.C.

Can you explain to the

6

jury what your duties and responsibilities have been in

7

your career as an agent and now as well.

8
9

A

Okay.

So before my current role I was a field

agent, which basically means that I investigate all the

10

allegations that arrive to us.

11

General is a different kind of law enforcement agency.

12

For Homeland Security we investigate allegations of

13

fraud, waste, and abuse for all DHS programs and

14

operations.

15

The Office of Inspector

In this case we were involved in this case

16

because the Baker County Sheriff's Office has a contract

17

with immigration and customs enforcement, which is part

18

of DHS.

19

that contract falls within our jurisdiction.

20

is why we investigate this case.

So anything that's considered wrongdoing within
And this

21

Q

Can you tell the jury your education, please.

22

A

Yes.

23
24
25

I have a bachelor's degree in criminal

justice.
Q

And what type of training have you had in your

career, sir?

I know.

78

1

A

That's a long one.

I did my basic training in

2

2003.

3

training and criminal investigative work.

4

in Glynn County, Georgia.

5

trainings regarding technical operations.

6

trainings regarding interviews and legal updates,

7

investigative techniques, you name it.

8

through intensive training roughly about 40 to 60 hours

9

a year just to maintain our jobs.

That's about nine weeks of basic law enforcement
That is done

After that I've had repeated
I've had

We have to go

If you have a

10

specialty, that requires an additional 40 to 60 hours'

11

worth of training.

12

Our training guidelines are basically

13

established by the U.S. Department of Justice.

14

the Inspectors General because we're a different type of

15

law enforcement agency -- we're not the FBI, we're not

16

ICE -- the Attorney General prescribes that we have to

17

meet certain training guidelines of training hours

18

including legal updates.

19

updates alone, for example, you have to have between 40

20

and 60 hours of training every three years minimum.

21

agency can set a higher standard and we do meet those.

22

That's just for legal updates.

23

area, we have to maintain those training standards as

24

well.

25

They --

You have to have -- on legal

The

If we specialize in an

And then different investigative techniques

79

1

that we employ either, for example,

2

advanced interviewing techniques where once you start

3

that track you have to maintain those training hours.

4

So throughout my 26-year law enforcement career for the

5

last 21 in Homeland Security, every year you have to

6

meet those training standards.

7
8
9

Q

And where are you currently stationed at in

your position?
A

I am actually part of headquarters operations.

10

I'm part of the headquarters operations division which

11

is basically the people that run all the nationwide

12

programs.

13

which is basically the people that oversee the

14

operations of all the field offices, Miami being our

15

closest one.

16

the policy group, the planning folks, the acquisition

17

folks.

18

headquarters operations division.

There are two divisions, field operations,

And headquarters operations basically is

And I currently belong to that group, the

19

Q

In 2019 where were you?

20

A

In 2019 I was a field agent out of our Orlando

21

sub office.

22

is where are our regional supervisor, we call it SAC,

23

special agent in charge, where they sit.

24

Orlando office had at the time a three-man office.

25

was called a sub office.

It is a -- Miami is our field office, which

But the

And I was working there

It

80

1

between 2012 through 2021 when I left to go to D.C.

2

The duties that I accomplished while I was there was

3

basically all investigations that came to us regarding

4

our fraud, waste, and abuse mandate.

5
6
7

Q

Can you explain to the jury how did you get

involved in this case.
A

Yes.

We received an allegation through a

8

system what we call the hotline.

9

system where we receive complaints from the public or

We have a centralized

10

from other components of DHS or other government

11

agencies.

12

an immigration detainee with the last name

13

claimed that she had been sexually abused or sex- --

14

that she had had what we considered to be unlawful

15

sexual contact with a prison guard.

16

purview because of the contract where ICE is now housing

17

detainees, immigration, at the Baker County Jail.

18

fell -- fell under our jurisdiction and we immediately

19

started the investigation.

20
21
22

Q

In this case we received that complaint that

It falls under our

So it

So once you received that information what did

you do next?
A

As soon as we received the allegation of the

23

rape we proceeded to coordinate to have

24

moved to the Immigration and Customs Enforcement office

25

in Jacksonville for us to interview her.

We wanted to

81

1

conduct the interview there because the allegation of

2

course said that she had been -- the incident had taken

3

place within the Baker County Sheriff's Office, so we

4

wanted to remove her from the area so she can speak

5

freely.

6
7
8
9
10

Q

So when you interviewed her where did that

take place at?
A

Yeah.

The interview took place at the

Jacksonville office of Immigration and Customs
Enforcement.

11

Q

When you interv- -- you did interview her?

12

A

I did.

13

Q

Was anyone with you when you interviewed her?

14

A

Yes.

15
16
17
18

Burnett.
Q

At the time my coworker was Scott

He's since retired.
And how long would you approximate the

interview took?
A

The interview -- interview was about two and a

19

half hours roughly.

20

more than two.

21

typically don't record all interviews, but in this case

22

because she was a foreign national, we weren't

23

100 percent sure that she was going to be in the country

24

when we did the interview as the information and the

25

investigation continued.

I'm going to say less than three,

We did record the interview.

We

So if we needed to get her

82

1

back in the country, we wanted to make sure that we had

2

evidence to support an agreement with the host country

3

to let her come back and to be able to negotiate with

4

immigration authorities to give her some kind of

5

permission to come into the country to testify or help

6

with the investigation, so that's why we recorded it.

7
8
9
10
11
12
13

Q

Agent Rosado, do you happen to recall what

country she was from?
A

I do not.

I am sorry.

I don't remember that

information.
Q

That's okay.

Do you recall her demeanor

during the interview?
A

Oh, God, yes.

I don't -- in my 26-year career

14

honestly I have only worked three or four sexual abuse

15

cases and they stick with you.

16

If I tell you that she ran the gamut of all emotions --

17

she was angry.

18

was crying at times.

19

really had the full gamut of feelings as she was

20

explaining what had happened to her.

21

Q

22
23

She was visibly shaken.

She was sometimes visibly shaking.
She was withdrawn at times.

She
She

After you concluded your interview of
, what did you do next?

A

Well, the first thing we did was reach out to

24

our agents in New York.

25

covered already, but during the interview she mentioned

I didn't know if it's been

83

1

that she had sent some items to a friend of hers in New

2

York.

3

clothing she claimed had DNA.

4

agents in -- in New York to start reaching out to her

5

friend who she identified as Josh Powe.

6

call as we were leaving the ICE facility was to reach

7

out to our agents to make sure that they were able to

8

secure that evidence because we knew it was going to be

9

pivotal.

She claimed that these items -- it was a piece of
We immediately asked our

So our first

We met with FDLE of course, asked them --

10

since they have primary jurisdiction over law

11

enforcement officers' misconduct, we reached out to them

12

to see if they wanted to join the case and they did not.

13

And other than that we basically reached out to our

14

supervisor to brief them of the seriousness of the

15

allegation.

16

Q

17
18

And did you speak to Mr. Josh Powe who was in

New York at the time?
A

I did speak to him briefly over the phone.

I

19

basically wanted to make sure, confirm that there was in

20

fact a parcel that she had -- that

21

sent out.

22

agents from my agency would be reaching out to him to

23

collect the item.

had

And I told him that at some point federal

24

Q

So you told him to keep the item?

25

A

Of course.

84

1

Q

Yeah.

2

A

Yeah.

Q

Did you make arrangements for Homeland

3
4

We understood the importance of the

item.

5

Security and other agents to go pick up this package

6

from Mr. Powe in New York?

7

A

Yes.

Yes.

I basically made sure that

8

everybody knew each other's phone and that we can agree

9

to pick up the item at certain time and certain date.

10

We understood Mr. Josh Powe had a job, so we didn't want

11

to interrupt his schedule, but we also knew the

12

importance of obtaining the package.

13

the day we had two agents that were able to go to him,

14

pick it up.

15

coordinate that.

16

the initial interview did we have a package here in

17

Florida.

18
19
20

Q

A

Yes.

22

kill me.

25

And no less than a week after we did

with Mr. Powe to retrieve the package?

just outside.

24

I think it may have taken a day or two to

Do you remember who the agents were that met

21

23

So at the end of

Q

It was Steve Sang and -- God.
I'm sorry.

I'm drawing a blank.

He'll

He actually gave me a ride this morning.
That's all right.

It's been a long day.

two agents met with Mr. Powe -A

He was

Yes.

But

85

1

Q

-- and got the item?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

Did you ever receive this package?

4

A

Who?

5

Q

Did you ever receive this package?

6

A

Yes.

It came to my office in Orlando and we

7

immediately repackaged it.

8

basically took the package as it came up.

9

another UPS envelope and I sent it to Detective

We didn't open it.

We

I put it in

10

McDuffie, I believe, at the Baker County Sheriff's

11

Office.

12

MR. YAZDIYA:

One moment, Your Honor.

Your

13

Honor, I'm showing the defense State's Exhibit F

14

for identification purposes.

15

Honor, if I may approach?

16
17
18

THE COURT:

Mr. Simmons.

Your

You may.

BY MR. YAZDIYA:
Q

Agent Rosado, this is State's Exhibit F for

19

identification purposes.

20

recognize that item?

You can take it.

Do you

21

A

I do.

22

Q

And what is that?

23

A

This is the printout from UPS when I actually

24
25

prepared the envelope to send to Detective McDuffie.
Q

And what would have been put in the envelope?

86

1

A

The envelope -- it's basically the tracking

2

number and the receipt of the item that we collected

3

from Mr. Powe that came from New York.

4

Q

And is your name on that?

5

A

It is in the e-mail because it's actually what

6

we received.

7

UPS to give us a confirmation and this is that

8

confirmation.

9
10

Q

When we create the package we actually ask

So that's the confirmation when you send it to

Morgan McDuffie?

11

A

Yes, sir.

12

Q

Who at the time was with the Baker County

13

Sheriff's Office?

14
15

A

Yes.

She was, I believe, the detective that

was assigned initially to this case.

16

Q

Does that seem to be in the same condition

17

when you look at the document, have the same

18

information?

19

A

Has it been altered in any way?

No, sir.

This is almost -- this is identical

20

to what was -- what was given to me as an e-mail from

21

UPS.

22
23
24
25

It's actually part of our case file.
Q

Thank you.
MR. YAZDIYA:

Your Honor, I'd like to

introduce this into evidence.
MR. SIMMONS:

No objection.

87

1

THE COURT:

Without objection State's F for

2

identification will be moved in as State's

3

Number 2.

4
5

(State's Exhibit No. 2 was received in
evidence.)

6
7

MR. YAZDIYA:

the jury as well, Your Honor.

8

THE COURT:

9

MR. YAZDIYA:

10
11

And I'd like to publish it to

A

You may.
Thank you, Madam Clerk.

I did recall the agent's name in New York.

Jerome Combs.

12

Q

13

while.

14

A

Of course.

15

Q

So it was Agent Jerome Combs?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

Thank you, Agent Rosado.

18
19

Yes.

I actually figured you would after a

Thank you for sharing that.

Once again, when you

received the package, you never opened it?
A

No.

No.

I understood if it was DNA I could

20

not run the risk of contaminating it.

21

I basically put it in another envelope outside of it and

22

sent it right to Detective McDuffie.

23
24
25

Q

McDuffie.

Okay.

So as it arrived

Agent Rosado, did you ever

receive another UPS package at a later date?
A

For this case, yes.

88

1
2

Q

And do you recall who you received that one

A

I believe we received a package from the same

from?

3
4

agents who had actually collected DNA from Mr. Josh

5

Powe.

6

Q

Okay.

7

A

If I rem- -- if I can explain.

8

Q

Yes, sir.

9

A

If my memory is correct, the DNA that was

Please do.

10

studied from that initial piece of clothing, it came

11

back with three --

12

MR. SIMMONS:

13

THE COURT:

14

MR. YAZDIYA:

15
16
17

Objection, Your Honor.
Sustained at this point.
Yes.

BY MR. YAZDIYA:
Q

At this point you can explain, but don't go

into what the fabric was.

18

A

Okay.

19

Q

Just -- just explain -- did you receive

20

another package?

21

A

I did.

22

Q

And who was that from?

23

A

It was from Mr. -- it was sent by the Agents

24

Jerome and -- I believe that second agent would have

25

been Adams that I think is retired by now.

But it --

89

1

again, it claimed -- it was supposed to be DNA from

2

Mr. Josh Powe.

3
4
5

Q

And did you open that package when you

received it?
A

I did not.

Again, it's DNA, so we enclosed --

6

whatever I received I put in another envelope and

7

created another UPS sticker and sent it to -- in this

8

case it was to Detective Sergeant Mancini.

9

Q

To David Mancini?

10

A

Yes, sir.

11

Q

With the Sheriff -- Baker County Sheriff's

12
13

Office?
A

14

Yeah.

Baker County Sheriff's Office.

MR. YAZDIYA:

One moment, Your Honor.

Your

15

Honor, I do not have any more questions at this

16

time.

17
18

I tender the witness.
THE COURT:

Thank you.

Thank you.
Mr. Simmons, when

you're ready.

19

MR. SIMMONS:

20

(Pause in the proceedings.)

21

MR. SIMMONS:

22

THE COURT:

23
24
25

Yes, Your Honor.

May it please the Court?
Yes, sir.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

Good afternoon, Agent Rosado.

90

1

A

Good afternoon, sir.

2

Q

You stated back in July of 2019 you had an

3

opportunity to interview the alleged victim, correct?

4

A

Correct.

5

Q

And you interviewed her for over two-plus

6

hours?

7

A

8

If my memory serves, yes.

It was about two

and a half hours roughly.

9

Q

And that interview was in fact recorded?

10

A

Yes, it was.

11

Q

And she was very detailed in describing the

12

dates and the incidents of what occurred, right?

13

A

That is my recollection, yes.

14

Q

And she was very detailed in describing

15

everything that occurred at the detention facility,

16

correct?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

And she gave you a brief history of -- some --

19

some introduction, the history, and then she got into

20

her description of what happened, correct?

21

MR. YAZDIYA:

Your Honor, I'm going to object.

22

These are facts not in evidence.

23

testified yet.

24

actually interviewed her.

25

THE COURT:

She has not

All he testified to is that he

All right.

You can -- that

91

1

general last question, you can answer that

2

particular question.

3

A

4
5
6
7
8
9

So, yes, she -- she explained what had

happened to her.
Q

And as it relates to the information that she

gave, you never verified that, correct?
A

Verified what?

Can we -- can you be more

specific, sir?
Q

Did you investigate to verify whether or not

10

Mr. Robinson was at the jail during this time of these

11

incidents?

12
13

MR. YAZDIYA:
direct.

14
15
16
17

Your Honor, outside the scope of

I don't think it's relevant at this point.

THE COURT:

Sustained at this point.

BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

During your interview you said you were with

Agent Burnett, right?

18

A

That's correct, sir.

19

Q

And during the interview she told you she

20

saved the cloth and mailed it to New York, correct?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

And you don't recall if she said she saved

23

anything else along with the cloth, do you?

24

A

If she saved anything else?

25

Q

Anything else along with the cloth that was

92

1
2
3
4
5

sent to New York.
A

I don't think she sent anything else to New

York, if my memory's correct.
Q

Did you recall how many pieces of cloth that

she said she saved?

6

A

No.

7

Q

Now, you stated that you were in Orlando

8

It was just a piece of cloth.

and -- at the time, correct?

9

A

That's correct, sir.

10

Q

And there's an attempt to get ahold of FDLE?

11

A

Yes.

12

Q

And because FDLE was not available at the

13

time, that evidence was sent back to Baker County

14

Sheriff's Office?

15

A

I don't think that's exactly how it happened.

16

We reached out to the FDLE, again, because as I

17

understood it -- I'm not from Florida.

18

it the FDLE has overall primary responsibility to

19

investigate state and local law enforcement for

20

misconduct and that's why we reached out to them.

As I understood

21

Q

Okay.

22

A

No.

23

Q

When you received the package, the package was

And there were no cooperation?

24

just labeled.

25

package to see what it was?

You didn't have a chance to look at the

93

1

A

No.

2

Q

So you don't know what was in there?

3

A

I do not.

4

Q

And when you received, again, a second

I literally sent it as it came to me.

5

package, that would have been in October some time,

6

again, you didn't know what was in there.

7

received you just placed it in another package and put

8

it in the mail?

Whatever you

9

A

Exactly.

10

Q

And on those forms that you received there is

11

a log for the chain of custody, correct?

12

A

Correct.

13

Q

And on that form that you received from agent

14

Jerome Combs back in July there was a second line where

15

you marked when you received it and when you sent it

16

off, correct?

17
18
19
20
21

A

Yeah.

That's standard procedure in my agency,

Q

And in October again when you received did you

yes.

mark where you received it and where you sent it off?
A

I'm not sure if we did or did not.

I'm trying

22

to recall because at this point I think initially they

23

tried to send it directly to the FDLE.

24

find anybody to accept it.

25

but I know that I received it, documented it, and sent

They couldn't

It's -- it's been a while,

94

1
2

it forward to Sergeant Mancini.
Q

Got you.

And the first -- back in July that

3

office you were in contact with, your point of contact

4

at that time was Detective McDuffie, correct?

5

A

McDuffie, yes.

6

Q

And prior to coming today you didn't get a

7

chance to review that interview video of the alleged

8

victim.

9

A

Interview video?

10

Q

The recorded --

11

A

-- an audio.

12

Q

I'm sorry.

There's no video.

It's --

Not the video, the recording.

13

recording, you didn't get a chance to review that

14

recorded interview?

15

A

No.

16

Q

Understood.

17

A

I figured I could testify about it, so --

18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

MR. SIMMONS:

Got you.

further, Your Honor.
MR. YAZDIYA:

Thank you.

The

Nothing

Subject to recall.

No questions from the State,

Your Honor.
*

*

*

*

-

-

-

*

SPECIAL AGENT JAMES DEPALMA,
having been produced and first duly sworn as a witness,

95

1

and having responded "Yes, I do" to the oath, testified

2

as follows:

3
4

THE COURT:

MR. YAZDIYA:

9
10

Yes, Your Honor.

Thank you.

One moment, Your Honor.

7
8

Please be seated.

Mr. Yazdiya, when you're ready.

5
6

Thank you, sir.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. YAZDIYA:
Q

If you could please state your name for the

record.

11

A

My name is James DePalma.

12

Q

And what is your current occupation?

13

A

I'm a special agent with the Department of

14

Homeland Security, Office of Inspector General.

15

Q

And how long have you been working there?

16

A

I've been working there since March of 2003 to

17
18
19
20

the present.
Q

Can you tell the jury what are your current

duties and responsibilities.
A

Yes.

What we do is we investigate allegations

21

of fraud, waste, and abuse committed against the

22

Department of Homeland Security.

23

investigate allegations of any sort of corruption of DHS

24

employees and DHS contractors.

25

Q

And we additionally

What different positions have you held since

96

1
2

2003 until now?
A

Well, I've been a special agent, senior

3

special agent, a resident agent in charge, an assistant

4

special agent, and also a special agent in charge with

5

the Department of Homeland Security.

6

agent again because I retired and was rehired under a

7

contract.

I'm now a special

8

Q

Can you tell the jury your education, please.

9

A

Yes.

Well, my professional education is I

10

have a BS degree in criminology from Florida State

11

University.

12

military, not law enforcement related.

13

and specifically related to law enforcement I'm a

14

graduate of the Federal Law Enforcement Training

15

Center's criminal investigator training program, the

16

Office of Inspector Ge- -- Office of Inspector General

17

training program at the Federal Law Enforcement Training

18

Center, and just numerous in-service trainings with the

19

fe- -- with the DHS in reference to our mission.

20
21

Q

I have an assortment of training from the
And relat- --

And what is your work experience from 2005

until the present?

22

A

2005 or 2003?

23

Q

2003.

24

A

To the present -- what, my work experience?

25

Q

Yes.

I'm sorry.

To the present.

97

1

A

Well, my work experience is predominantly

2

fraud investigations and public corruption where we

3

investigate DHS employees and contractors who commit any

4

sort of -- when we say "employee misconduct," that's

5

criminal or administrative in nature.

6

of Inspector General we try to focus on investigations

7

that are higher violations of the United States Code in

8

relation to bribery, kickbacks, money laundering, child

9

pornography, and to an extent any sort of -- if I didn't

10

say narcotics.

11

employees, those crimes.

12
13

Q

With the Office

Unfortunately that happens with DHS

And if you could just explain what type of

training you've had.

14

A

The type training of I had?

15

Q

Yes.

16

A

The most valuable type of training we have in

17

DHS I would consider is our in-service training where we

18

have training that's actually conducted from our office

19

or from people from Washington, D.C. regarding agents

20

and instructors who actually have been case agents in

21

investigations.

22

the case that they had, whether it was successful or not

23

successful, and they teach us to go over and investigate

24

a plan from A to Z to help us find out the absolute

25

truth.

They create formal training regarding

Because that's really what our goal is, to find

98

1

out the truth, not to find out -- we're not just

2

investigating on the side of the United States

3

government, to help us find out the whole story.

4

that's the -- I would say the most productive training

5

that I've participated as a student and as a teacher on.

6
7
8
9

Q
2019.

And

Let me take you to November 5th, I believe, of
How did you get involved in this case?

A

I got involved through Special Agent Rosado,

who's our case agent with the Department of Homeland

10

Security Office of Inspector General and he requested

11

for me to go to Jacksonville.

12

Jacksonville, Florida, to meet with the victim,

13

I was already in

, to retrieve her DNA sample from her.

14

Q

Did you meet with her?

15

A

Yes, I did.

16

Q

Did you go alone?

17

A

No.

18

Q

Who -- who did you go with?

19

A

DHS OIG Special Agent Dominic Casiotta and

20

myself met with her.

21

Q

Do you recall where the two of you met her?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

Where was that at?

24

A

We met her in Jacksonville, Florida.

25

a Barnes & Noble at 10280 Midtown Parkway in

There's

99

1

Jacksonville, Florida.

2

Noble, it's to the right and there's a little park with

3

a fountain there.

4

next to the park.

If you look at the Barnes &

We met her on the metal chairs there

5

Q

Have you collected DNA before?

6

A

Yes, sir.

7

Q

Can you explain to the jury the process you go

8

through to collect DNA saliva samples and what do you

9

use to do this.

10

A

Yes.

So at around 2008 the Department of

11

Justice mandated all federal agents have to collect DNA

12

from people that we arrest.

13

go through training.

14

the first thing we watched is a video on how to do it,

15

specifically in reference to our training.

16

a training a few times, but you really just learn how to

17

do it by opening the packet up and following the

18

instructions of the step by step of what to do.

19

probably have collected DNA on my cases and other

20

people's cases at least 100 times in the last 17 years.

21

And what was your last question?

22

through the steps on how to do it or what I did?

23
24
25

Q

So we obviously then had to

They provided us kits.

The steps -- yeah.

And then

So I watched

And I

You want me to go

The steps of what you do

when you collect DNA.
A

Okay.

So what you do is -- if you could just

100

1

visualize, it's a -- it's a sealed paper -- thick paper

2

envelope.

3

inside of it, step one, the very first thing you do is

4

you want a make sure your DNA is not going to

5

contaminate anything, so you put rubber gloves on.

And then you open up this envelope and what's

6

So you put your rubber gloves on and then you

7

open up another packet that has what looks likes a flat

8

toothbrush, but it's -- it's like a plastic handle

9

that's real thin.

And instead of the toothbrush it

10

would be a square or rectangular thick cloth -- or

11

excuse me, thin cloth that doesn't -- that's not

12

flexible.

13

person that you're going to get the DNA from, I need you

14

to open your mouth and I'm going to swab the inside of

15

your mouth, left, right, left, right, just for a few

16

seconds.

17

and then another container and then a third container

18

and seal it from there.

19

And so at that point you just explain to the

And then I'm going to put it into a container

I -- I -- those were the exact steps I did

20

with this one, but since this -- this lady's a victim

21

and not somebody I arrested, I gave her the opportunity

22

for her to swab herself instead of me sticking the thing

23

in her mouth.

24

and we did it twice.

25

Q

I let her do it instead of me doing it

Was she cooperative when you met with her?

101

1

A

Was she cooperative?

Yeah.

She -- she wanted

2

to talk to her lawyer and I let her talk to her lawyer.

3

And she did, yes.

4

MR. YAZDIYA:

5

(Pause in the proceedings.)

6

MR. YAZDIYA:

One moment, Your Honor.

Your Honor, if I may approach, I

7

have State's Exhibit C for identification purposes.

8

May I approach the witness, Your Honor?

9
10
11
12

THE COURT:

You may.

BY MR. YAZDIYA:
Q

Agent DePalma, do you recognize -- sorry.

Do

you recognize these items?

13

A

Yes.

14

Q

Okay.

15

A

These two are the items that are -- that

And what are these items?

16

contain the -- the -- that I sealed that have obviously

17

been resealed, but that holds the applicator.

18

inside of her mouth.

19
20

Q

That was

Other than them being resealed, do they seem

to be in the same condition as when you sealed them?

21

A

Yes.

22

Q

Are these the items that Agent Casiotta, who

23

was with you at the time, that you mailed to or -- the

24

Baker County Sheriff's Office?

25

A

Yes.

I -- I believe he gave them.

I don't

102

1

know how he gave them to them.

2

Q

That's all right.

3

A

I believe we did hand to hand.

4

Q

But they were sealed by you?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

Thank you.

7
8

They were sealed by me, yes.

MR. YAZDIYA:

Madam Clerk, thank you.

moment, Your Honor.

9

(Pause in the proceedings.)

10

MR. YAZDIYA:

Your Honor, I think that is all

11

the questions I have at this time.

12

witness.

13
14

All right.

Thank you, sir.

Mr. Simmons, sir, when you're ready.
MR. SIMMONS:

Yes, Your Honor.

May it please

the Court?

17

THE COURT:

18
19

I tender the

Thank you, Agent DePalma.

THE COURT:

15
16

One

Yes, sir.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SIMMONS:

20

Q

Good afternoon, Agent DePalma.

21

A

Good afternoon, sir.

22

Q

Now, I understand that you had an opportunity

23

to simply collect the sample for

24

correct?

25

A

That is correct, yes.

,

103

1

Q

And that was yourself and Agent Casiotta?

2

A

That's correct, yes.

3

Q

Besides collecting the sample did you partake

4

in any other part of the investigation?

5

A

Yes, I did.

6

Q

Okay.

7

A

No.

And -- yes, I did.

Did you conduct any interviews?
I -- I want to make sure I'm not getting

8

the cases confused.

9

was with Agent Rosado when he conducted an interview.

10
11

Q

I believe on that interview -- I

So you were present when Agent Rosado -- when

he conducted an additional interview?

12

A

Yes.

13

Q

Now, as it relates to collecting and

14

documenting the DNA sample, you collected it and you

15

sealed it?

16

A

That's correct, yeah.

17

Q

And you labeled on the bag where in fact it

18

was going?

19

A

I labeled on the external bag?

20

Q

Correct.

21

A

The -- okay.

So the external bag, the way we

22

do it with a defendant, it has a self-addressed env- --

23

address on there.

24

Q

Okay.

25

A

So we don't put the address on there.

I just

104

1

got the bag and just handed it to over to Special Agent

2

Casiotta.

3

did not go to the Department of Justice lab.

4

know where the Baker County Sheriff's Office -- what lab

5

it went to.

6

Q

It didn't go to our labs -- it definitively
I don't

So -- and your collection of this sample was

7

in essence sending it right back to the Baker County

8

Sheriff's Office?

9

A

I -- yes, sir.

10

Q

And outside of the instance of the

That would be correct, yeah.

11

investigation and also collecting that DNA, you had no

12

other parts in this investigation as it relates to this

13

matter, correct?

14

A

No.

I just think -- I apologize.

I might be

15

getting another case confused.

16

of -- I believe I was present on one interview where

17

Special Agent Rosado did the interview.

18
19
20
21
22

MR. SIMMONS:

I know we did a lot

Got you.

I don't have anything

further, Your Honor.
*

*

*

*

-

-

-

*

SPECIAL AGENT DOMINIC CASIOTTA, JR.,

23

having been produced and first duly sworn as a witness,

24

and having responded "Yes, ma'am, Yes, Your Honor" to

25

the oath, testified as follows:

105

1
2

THE COURT:

Please be seated.

And, Mr. Yazdiya, when you're ready.

3

MR. YAZDIYA:

4
5

Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. YAZDIYA:

6

Q

Can you please state your name for the record.

7

A

My name's Dominic Joseph Casiotta, Jr.

8

Q

Can you please state your occupation.

9

A

I'm a retired special agent for the Department

10
11
12

of Homeland Security.
Q

And how long did you work for the Department

of Homeland Security?

13

A

I worked there from '09 till 2023, 14 years.

14

Q

Can you tell the jury what was your duties and

15
16

responsibilities.
A

I was a criminal investigator investigating

17

crimes against the government and by government

18

employees while I was working for the Office of

19

Inspector General.

20
21
22
23
24
25

Q

And where -- when you were working with them

where was your office located?
A

Miramar.

It was the Miami field office, but

it's in Miramar, Florida.
Q
please.

And can you tell the jury your education,

106

1
2
3

A

I have a bachelor's in business from SUNY and

I have a master's from Regis University.
Q

And can you tell the jury your work experience

4

with Department of Homeland Security.

5

things did you do?

6

A

What type of

Investigated -- I was a criminal investigator.

7

We investigated crimes against the government and by

8

government employees.

9

last couple years working there.

I did mostly FEMA fraud cases the
Prior to working

10

Homeland Security I was a U.S. Postal inspection -- I

11

worked at the U.S. Postal inspection service.

12

narcotics and child exploitation and prior to that I was

13

a police officer.

14
15
16

Q

I worked

And can you also tell the jury your training

that you've had.
A

I graduated from Henrico County basic police

17

academy in Virginia, the Postal Inspection Service basic

18

academy, the Homeland Security special agent training

19

program in Georgia.

20

Q

How did you get involved in this case?

21

A

I was in Jacksonville on a FEMA fraud case.

22

And I was asked by the assistant special agent in

23

charge, DePalma, who was part of this case to -- while I

24

was up here to come witness something he was doing with

25

this case.

107

1
2
3

Q

And what exactly did you do in relation to

this case?
A

I met ASAC DePalma in Jacksonville.

He was

4

obtaining a DNA sample.

5

case as I am not really even now.

6

witness.

7

envelope.

8

have something to do tomorrow, can you drive it -- on

9

your way back to Ft. Lauderdale can you make a stop

I was not familiar with the
I was just there as a

And he obtained the DNA and put it into an
And he said, hey, would you do me a favor, I

10

to -- and drop it off here in Baker County, so that's

11

what I did.

12

Q

13

Do you recall what it looked like when you got

this from Agent DePalma, the package?

14

A

I'm sorry?

15

Q

Do you recall what the package looked like

16
17
18

that you got from Agent DePalma?
A

I know what those packages look like, but I

can't recall specifically.

I know it was an envelope.

19

Q

An envelope?

20

A

Yeah.

21

Q

What did you do with this envelope when it was

22

handed to you by Agent DePalma?

23

A

24

hotel room.

25

then the next morning I drove from Jacksonville Town

I most likely would have brought it back to my
I mean I had to.

That's where I went.

And

108

1
2

Center to here, to Baker County.
Q

To Baker County.

And do you remember giving

3

the -- the package to someone at the Sheriff's Office

4

here in Baker County?

5

A

It was a uniformed deputy that I handed it to.

6

Q

You handed it to him.

Would it be fair to say

7

that once you were given possession of this it was

8

pretty much in your care and custody until you gave it

9

over to the Baker County Sheriff's Office?

10

A

That's correct.

11

MR. YAZDIYA:

12

(Pause in the proceedings.)

13
14

One moment, Your Honor.

BY MR. YAZDIYA:
Q

Agent Casiotta, when you met with this

15

individual you said at the Town Center in Duval County,

16

Jacksonville?

17

A

With Agent DePalma?

18

Q

With Agent DePalma.

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

Was it just you, Agent DePalma, and the

21

individual that you were meeting with?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

Was it a male or a female you --

24

A

It was a female.

25

Q

A female?

There were other people around, but --

109

1

A

Yes.

2

Q

And were you present when the DNA sample

3
4

was -- the cheek swab, excuse me, was actually taken?
A

5

Yes, I was.
MR. YAZDIYA:

I think that's all the questions

6

I have, Your Honor.

7

you.

8

THE WITNESS:

9

THE COURT:

10

12

Thank

Thank you, sir.
Okay.

MR. SIMMONS:

11

I tender the witness.

Mr. Simmons.

Very brief, Your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SIMMONS:

13

Q

Agent Casiotta, how you doing today?

14

A

Great, sir.

15

Q

As it relates to whom you met, you can't

16

Thank you.

identify the individual?

17

A

I couldn't identify her now at this point, no.

18

Q

And you were just there just to view that

19
20
21
22

procedure taking place?
A

I was just there at the request of DePalma,

Agent DePalma, to be a witness for him.
Q

And once it was sealed it was in your care

23

until you dropped it off here at the Baker County

24

Sheriff's Office?

25

A

Yes.

110

1
2

Q

And once it was dropped off you don't know

what happened to it?

3

A

I do not.

4

Q

And you don't know what was done with it?

5

A

No, I didn't.

6
7

MR. SIMMONS:
Your Honor.

8
9

I don't have anything further,

THE COURT:

All right.

Is this -- any

redirect?

10

MR. YAZDIYA:

11

*

12
13

No, Your Honor.
*

*

*

-

-

-

*

CHRISTINA FAIRCLOTH,

14

having been produced and first duly sworn as a witness,

15

and having responded "Yes" to the oath, testified as

16

follows:

17

THE COURT:

18

MR. KING:

19

THE COURT:

20
21

All right.

Thank you.

May it please the Court?
You may.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. KING:

22

Q

Good afternoon.

23

A

Hello.

24

Q

Now that you're under oath, please introduce

25

yourself to the jury.

111

1

A

My name is Christina Faircloth.

2

Q

And where do you work, ma'am?

3

A

Baker County Sheriff's Office.

4

Q

How long have you been with the Sheriff's

5

Office?

6

A

A little over 20 years.

7

Q

What is your current job title?

8

A

Records custodian.

9

Q

Can you briefly describe your position and the

10
11
12
13
14
15

duties that are associated with that role.
A

Care and keeping of agency records, daily

operations of the records department.
Q

Will you describe generically just the type of

records that you would handle on an average day-to-day.
A

Average day-to-day basis, officer reports,

16

booking records, background checks, witness statements,

17

other documents that pertain to police reports.

18
19

Q

And do your record-keeping include shift

schedules and things of that nature?

20

A

On a daily basis?

21

Q

Yes.

22

A

We store those schedules.

23

Q

Now, do you have a record-keeping system at

24
25

the Baker County Sheriff's Office?
A

Yes.

112

1

Q

What is that system?

2

A

We use -- the record management system is

3

called SmartCOP.

4

Q

Can you describe that briefly to the jury.

5

A

It is a computer program basically based -- it

6

has several modules and platforms to assist the agency

7

from the corrections side of law enforcement and

8

computer-aided dispatch.

9

Q

Now, turning to why we're all here --

10

MR. KING:

11

THE COURT:

12

MR. KING:

May I approach, Your Honor?
You may.
Your Honor, I'm approaching with

13

what's been marked as State's Exhibit -- Composite

14

Exhibit G1 through 29.

15
16
17

BY MR. KING:
Q

Will you take a look at that for me.

Do you

recognize what those are?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

And what do you recognize those to be?

20

A

These are shift schedules.

21

Q

And are those records that you deal with as

22

part of the Sheriff's Office custodian?

23

A

Yes.

24

Q

Are these business records that are kept in

25

the regular course of business at the Baker County

113

1

Sheriff's Office?

2

A

Yes, they are.

3

Q

Is it the Baker County Sheriff's Office

4

regular practice to make and keep these business records

5

in the course of their operations?

6

A

Yes.

7

Q

Is that a business record that to your

8

knowledge is made at or near the time of the event that

9

it's reporting to be?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

And from your information and knowledge were

12

these records made by somebody with knowledge and

13

information as to what they represent?

14

A

Yes, they were.

15

MR. KING:

16

(Pause in the proceedings.)

17

MR. KING:

18

can take that back.

19

witness.

20
21

Thank you.

Thank you.

Tender the

Questions from the

defense?
MR. SIMMONS:

23

25

One moment, Your Honor.

No other questions, Your Honor.

THE COURT:

22

24

Okay.

Yes, Your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

Good afternoon, Ms. Faircloth.

I

114

1

A

Good afternoon.

2

Q

I assume as it relates to your job working in

3

records you say you've been in that capacity for 20

4

years?

5

A

In records, no, not for 20 years.

6

Q

Oh.

7

You've been employed with the Sheriff's

Office for 20 years?

8

A

Yes.

9

Q

In different capacities?

10

A

Yes.

11

Q

And how long have you been in the records

12

department?

13

A

Since 2017.

14

Q

Now, as it relates to these records the shifts

15

are already predetermined, correct?

16
17

MR. KING:

Objection.

knowledge.

18

THE COURT:

19

(Sidebar conference.)

20
21
22

Lack of predicate,

*

If y'all can approach briefly.

*

*

*

*

BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

Ms. Faircloth, aside from your duties as the

23

records custodian are you familiar with the shifts at

24

the Baker County Jail?

25

A

Will you repeat the question, please.

115

1

Q

Aside from your duties as the records

2

custodian are you familiar with the work schedule or the

3

shifts at the Baker County Jail?

4

A

No, I do not make those.

5

Q

And you literally just maintain these records,

6

correct?

7

A

Correct.

8

Q

And as it relates to attendance or anything

9
10

along those lines, you don't maintain those as well, do
you?

11

A

How do you mean?

12

Q

As it relates to the records if an -- if an

13

individual did not show up or showed up, there was no

14

way to reflect that in the record?

15

that, do you?

16
17
18
19

A

You don't maintain

I'm not understanding the question as you're

asking it.
Q

The records that you maintain shows what the

work schedule is?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

If an individual was to call out of work, it

22

would not be reflected in this record because this

23

record is just what the work schedule is, correct?

24

A

I can't answer that question.

25

Q

Okay.

So aside from keeping the records you

116

1

have no other knowledge, you just keep the records and

2

that's it?

3

A

We store the records, yes.

4

MR. SIMMONS:

5

THE COURT:

6

MR. KING:

7

(State's Composite Exhibit No. 3 was received

8

That's it.

Nothing further.

Any redirect?
No redirect, Your Honor.

in evidence.)

9

*

10
11

*

*

*

-

-

-

*

SERGEANT JAMES MESSER,

12

having been produced and first duly sworn as a witness,

13

and having responded "I do" to the oath, testified as

14

follows:

15
16

THE COURT:

Please be seated.

And, Mr. King, you may proceed.

17

MR. KING:

18
19

Thank you, sir.

Thank you, sir.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. KING:

20

Q

Good afternoon.

21

A

Good afternoon, sir.

22

Q

Now that you're sworn in, will you please

23
24
25

introduce yourself to the jury.
A
years old.

My name is James Edward Messer, Sr.

I'm 55

And I currently work for the Clay County

117

1
2

Sheriff's Office.
Q

All right.

Will you please tell me -- or tell

3

the jury, rather, a little bit about your background and

4

training.

5

A

So I've been working in corrections, detention

6

for 35 years.

7

prisons and went to the Clay County Sheriff's Office for

8

19 and a half years.

9

Baker County Sheriff's Office for 19 and a half years.

10

While I was at the Clay County Sheriff's Office I rose

11

through the ranks up to a captain position.

When I was

12

at Baker I was a sergeant and a lieutenant.

And in

13

19- -- 2017 Sheriff Rhoden promoted me to a lieutenant

14

and put me in charge of jail operations.

15

in 2019, went to work at DCF, then I went to work at

16

Bradford, and I came back to my home agency in 2021.

17

Q

I started off in 1987 at one of the

I took a little break, was at the

I left Baker

And going back a little bit to March of 2019,

18

were you working at the Baker County Sheriff's Office at

19

that time?

20

A

I was.

21

Q

Can you please tell the jury a little bit

22

about the jail in 2019 as far as the shifts and how it

23

was run.

24
25

A

Yes, sir.

So in 2019 as it had been for

several years prior to that, as long as I can remember,

118

1

we had four security shifts inside the jail.

2

shifts were 12-hour shifts.

3

6 p.m.

4

shifts.

5

we tried to get our staffing up to around 14 bodies per

6

shift so that we could have plenty of coverage for days

7

off and leave and, you know, stuff like that.

8

people assigned to booking.

9

medical.

All those

And we worked 6 a.m. to

So we had two day shifts and two overnight night
So all the staffing on the shifts -- after 2017

So we had

We had people assigned to

We had people assigned to housing and the

10

control rooms.

11

around somewhat and kind of would -- would at times work

12

different positions on different days.

13

Q

And so those staff members rotated

And are you familiar with a Brian Robinson as

14

a correctional officer that used to work at the Baker

15

County Detention Center?

16

A

I am.

17

Q

Do you recognize him here in the courtroom

18

today?

19

A

20
21
22

Yes, sir.

He's sitting right there between --

in the middle with the black suit on.
MR. KING:

May the record reflect he

identified the defendant, Your Honor.

23

THE COURT:

24

MR. KING:

25

THE COURT:

It will so reflect.
And may I approach?
You may.

119

1

MR. KING:

I'm approaching with what's been

2

previously marked as State's Exhibit 3.

3

composite exhibit, 29 pages.

4

BY MR. KING:

5

Q

Will you take a look at that.

6

A

Yes, sir.

7

Q

Do you recognize what those are?

8

A

I do.

9

These are shift rosters.

MR. KING:

10
11

This is a

THE COURT:

Your Honor, permission to publish?
You may.

BY MR. KING:

12

Q

Sir, I'm going to put the TV on behind you

14

A

Okay.

15

Q

And what you have in your hand is the same

13

here.

16

thing that's up there on the screen, so it might be a

17

little --

18

A

Yes, sir.

19

Q

-- easier for you.

And what I'd like you to

20

do is take a look at this first page and tell the jury

21

the information that you're able to ascertain off of

22

this log as to the date and who was working.

23

A

Okay.

So this is our shift roster for

24

March 1st, 2019, the day shift, 0600 to 1800, 6 a.m. to

25

6:00 p.m.

Lieutenant Gordon was the shift supervisor,

120

1

the watch commander, and then on the left-hand side

2

column it shows all the post assignments or the -- the

3

posts.

4

assigned to those posts including the top two would be

5

supervisors on down.

6

numbers towards the bottom.

7

roll call was signed by, it looks like, Sergeant

8

Roberts.

9

this is a daily thing that we compiled and it was our --

And then the middle column shows the officers

And then it's got some statistical
And then this particular

It gives a breakdown of our count.

And so

10

basically like our shift assignment schedule for every

11

day.

12

Q

Okay.

And specifically on this first page are

13

you able to ascertain whether or not the defendant,

14

Mr. Robinson, was working on March 1st based on this

15

document?

16

A

According to this document from March 1st

17

the -- Mr. Robinson was assigned as the booking officer

18

on that day during the day shift.

19
20

Q

All right.

And if I can get you to go to the

next page, I believe, March 2nd.

21

A

Yes, sir.

22

Q

Same -- same question.

23

ascertain if Mr. Robinson was working on this date?

24
25

Are you able to

A
area.

Yes, sir.

He was assigned to the medical

121

1
2

Q

A

Yes, sir.

He was also assigned to the medical

area that day.

5
6

And this, I believe, next page

should be March 3rd?

3
4

All right.

Q

All right.

And this next one, I believe, is

March 6th?

7

A

Yes, sir.

8

Q

And was Mr. Robinson working on March 6th?

9

A

Yes, sir.

11

Q

And next being March 7th.

12

A

Yes, sir.

10

13

He was assigned to the medical

area.

He was assigned to the -- as the

officer in charge of the housing area that day.

14

Q

15

March 11th.

16

A

It does look like March 11th.

17

Q

And was Mr. Robinson working that day?

18

A

Yes.

19

And this one's a little bit -- it says
It's a little hazy there.

He was assigned as the OIC for the

housing area that day.

20

Q

And then March 12th, same question.

21

A

Yes, sir.

22

He was assigned as the booking

officer that day.

23

Q

And March 15th?

24

A

He was assigned as the A pod officer that day.

25

Q

And March 16th?

122

1

A

He was assigned as the A pod that day.

2

Q

March 17th?

3

A

He was assigned as the A pod officer that day.

4

Q

And March 20th?

5

A

He was assigned as the medical officer that

7

Q

March 21st?

8

A

He was assigned to the confinement that day.

9

Q

All right.

10

A

Yes, sir.

11

Q

March 26th?

12

A

He was assigned as the A pod officer that day.

13

Q

March 29th?

14

A

He was assigned as the rover that day.

15

Q

And March 31st?

16

A

He was assigned as the medical officer that

Q

Just a few more.

6

17

day.

these with me.

20
21

He was assigned to A pod that day.

day.

18
19

Next, I believe, is March 25th.

A

Thank you for going through

April 3rd?

He was assigned to the hospital supervising an

inmate that was in the hospital at Shands Jacksonville.

22

Q

Next one being April 4th.

23

A

He was assigned as the medical officer that

Q

Next was April 8th.

24
25

day.

123

1

A

He was assigned as the A pod officer that day.

2

Q

April 12th next.

3

A

A pod officer.

4

Q

April 13th?

5

A

He was assigned to confinement.

6

Q

April 14th?

7

A

A pod officer.

8

Q

April 17th?

9

A

B pod officer.

10

Q

April 18th?

11

A

Confinement.

12

Q

April 22nd?

13

A

A pod officer.

14

Q

April 23rd?

15

A

A pod officer.

16

Q

And then we've got -- I believe May 24th is

18

A

B pod officer.

19

Q

May 25th?

20

A

A pod officer.

21

Q

And last but not least, May 26th?

22

A

A pod officer.

23

Q

So on all those days that we've just gone

17

next?

24

through Mr. Robinson was working at the Baker County

25

Detention Center per those records.

Is that a fair

124

1

statement?

2

A

Yes, sir.

3

Q

All right.

Just give me one moment.

Now, I

4

want to ask a little bit about the surveillance system

5

at the jail.

6

surveillance system that was in the jail in 2019.

7

A

Can you please describe for the jury the

Okay.

So throughout the facility there are a

8

number of cameras.

9

number of cameras, but there's a lot of cameras.

There's -- I'm not sure the total
And so

10

that system is on a DVR system that allows that system

11

to record the activities that those cameras cover inside

12

the jail.

13

And so that is backed up to a set of servers.

14

And I'm not an IT guy, so this is basic what I know.

15

And so when the activities are recorded if there's an

16

incident, we can go and pull that video for a certain

17

number of time.

18

if a certain amount of time elapses, then -- and

19

somebody asks us for a video of an incident, we may not

20

have that video because of the time lapse because we

21

don't have unlimited storage.

22

astronomically expensive to have storage enough to save

23

it forever, right.

24
25

So the servers are storage, right, so

It would be

So when the storage is full it overwrites
that.

So when the time has gone, whatever that is, and

125

1

at the time maybe my recollection was -- is in the area

2

of 30 days -- so if it -- an incident happened in those

3

30 days and it started overwriting, then it would be

4

gone.

And we could not get that video to look at it.

5

MR. KING:

6

tender the witness.

7

THE COURT:

I have no other questions.

And I

Thank you, Mr. Messer.

All right.

Defense.

8
9
10

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SIMMONS:

11

Q

Good afternoon, Officer Messer.

12

A

Good afternoon.

13

Q

Now, back in 2019 you were the lieutenant at

14

the jail?

15

A

I was.

16

Q

And you were -- you was in charge of all of

17
18
19
20

the officers that actually worked at the jail?
A

I was a jail administrator.

I was in charge

of the daily operations of the facility.
Q

And you -- as the administrator you kind of

21

interviewed and you dealt with discipline and new hires

22

as well?

23

A

Yes, sir.

24

Q

Now, as it relates to the schedules, there

25

I was responsible for everything.

were four different schedules, correct?

126

1

A

There were four different shifts, yes, sir.

2

Q

And each of those shifts are already

3

predetermined, correct?

4

A

In what way are you talking about?

5

Q

There's an A, B, C, and D, which means --

6

A

Yes, sir.

7

Q

-- that within a month's time somebody would

Yes, sir.

8

know their schedule because of the two days on, three

9

off, or however it works out?

10

A

Yeah.

So the way that the schedule works is

11

that -- I'm not sure if there's an official term for the

12

schedule, but just take a week starting on Monday, so a

13

12-hour shift on Monday and Tuesday, that one shift

14

would work that day, the opposite shift would work

15

Wednesday and Thursday, and then, say, Alpha shift will

16

work Monday and Tuesday, they'd work Friday, Saturday,

17

and Sunday.

18

opposite of that.

19

Tuesday, they'd work Wednesday, Thursday.

20

was -- it -- it never changed.

21

when they were supposed to work.

22

schedule.

23

they were assigned that particular shift.

24
25

Q

And then the following week it would be
Alpha shift would be off Monday and
So that

The officers always knew
They knew the set

And the only thing would be when -- where

And those records that you just reviewed were

the shifts and who was scheduled to work, correct?

127

1

A

I would assume from those records that that is

2

correct, but I can more accurately state that those were

3

the people that were actually there.

4

Q

So in essence somebody may call out of work

5

because the shifts are already in place.

6

situations happen with family and people may call out of

7

work, but the shift is made up and people know their

8

schedule, so somebody may sometimes call out?

And sometimes

9

A

Yes.

10

Q

Now, so those -- those records or those

11

shifts, they're put in place because it's predetermined

12

because of the Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, and Delta?

13

A

Yes, sir.

14

Q

Okay.

Now, you stated that there were

15

different surveillance systems and other systems at the

16

jail that addressed surveillance as well as security

17

checks, correct?

18

A

The what?

19

Q

There were systems at the jail in place as it

20

relates to surveillance as well as systems in place that

21

dealt with security checks, correct?

22

A

Yes.

23

Q

Okay.

24
25

Now, you talked about the surveillance

system at the jail as it relates to cameras, correct?
A

Yes, sir.

128

1

Q

And while you were at the jail as the

2

administrator, you also helped implement a security

3

check system, correct?

4

A

The Guardian RFID.

5

Q

Yes.

6
7

Tell -- tell us about that.

MR. KING:

Your Honor, I'm going to object.

May we approach?

8

THE COURT:

9

(Sidebar conference.)

10
11
12
13
14

*

You may.

*

*

*

*

BY MR. SIMMONS:
Q

Please tell us about that system that you

assisted to put in place as it relates to security.
A

So Guardian RFID is a system that we can -- we

15

that we were using at the facility in order to make sure

16

that certain security functions that we did were

17

documented and that we could recover that data later if

18

we needed to and we could prove that we had been doing

19

certain security tasks.

20

security checks in the housing areas.

21

that I'm aware of is required to make security checks at

22

certain times.

23

when -- the overnight hours when it's sleeping time.

24

we need to make sure that those inmates are safe.

25

need to make sure that they're alive.

For instance, overnight
So every jail

And certainly one of the times is

We

We need to make

So

129

1

sure that things are as they're supposed to -- to be.

2

And so as with anything that involves a human,

3

errors can be made, things forgotten.

4

was to purchase this system that would allow us to make

5

sure that we were doing the things that we were supposed

6

to be doing, right.

7

equipment bought at some time prior to my tenure as the

8

jail administrator.

9

a long time.

So my intention

And so there had been some

We had been hearing about this for

So when I got promoted to that position I

10

made it a mission of mine to find this equipment, to see

11

if it was something that could benefit our facility.

12

And so through a lot of research and education

13

on my part we figured out what we need to do, upgraded

14

the system, and then we ultimately implemented that

15

system and that product inside of our facility for our

16

staff to use for those accountability checks as well as

17

making sure that the inmates are accounted for wherever

18

they may be inside of the facility.

19

have an almost real-time idea of where they were at if

20

something were to happen, right.

21
22
23

Q

So that we could

And if used correctly, that system had the

potential to track everyone in the facility, correct?
A

So I wouldn't use the word "track."

I

24

would -- I would use the word "identify" because it

25

would tell us the location where the inmate was at or

130

1

their last location, okay.

2

if an inmate was assigned to a housing -- certain

3

housing location, the system when -- would show that

4

they're there.

5

jail management system, so they shared information about

6

every two minutes.

7

So if -- say, for instance,

So the system was interfaced with our

And -- so once the -- the inmate information

8

was entered into our jail management system it would

9

interface with the RFID and share that information so

10

that when the housing assignment was made, that would be

11

uploaded to the RFID.

12

that was about a size of an iPhone maybe, when it was

13

used if we scanned the inmate ID card or armband, there

14

was an RFID chip inside of that and it would tell us who

15

that person was, put up a picture on there, tell the

16

housing location, or where they were.

17

Okay.

So the little handheld device

So if we saw an inmate walking down the

18

hallway and we weren't sure that they were supposed to

19

be there, if we scanned them with the handheld, it would

20

tell us who that inmate was, show us a picture so we

21

could make sure that we had that right person and then

22

tell us where they belonged, right.

23

from the housing area to medical, they would get

24

scanned.

25

housing area, they would get scanned and show them back

So if they went

If they went from medical back to their

131

1

to their housing area or show them to medical or show

2

them to a work assignment or whatever it was.

3

numerous locations that we could scan them and show them

4

that if they were moved to.

5

to know where those inmates were all the time if the

6

data was put in properly.

7

Q

There was

So it gave us the ability

And each individual deputy or -- they would

8

have either their name or some sign in number when they

9

get on the shift to kind of sign into the system,

10
11

correct?
A

So each of the handheld devices -- we had

12

enough handheld devices for all the staff members that

13

needed one on a daily basis to have one assigned to them

14

on their shift.

15

assigned an individual login so that we would know who

16

was using that device, so that when we went to pull

17

records later we could tell that Officer A was using

18

this device on this date in this time for this function.

19

And so when the next staff member came in if the

20

battery's low, they could swap the battery.

21

log in and they can go about their shift doing the same

22

exact thing.

23

Q

Okay.

And so each of the staff members was

They could

And as it relates to reports, a report

24

could be generated from that system as it relates to an

25

individual deputy or as well as a detainee or an inmate,

132

1

correct?

2

A

Absolutely.

We could go in -- there's

3

numerous reports that we could print from the system.

4

We could -- we could get that data off of the company

5

server that was stored for us for, you know, however

6

long.

7

incident came up and they needed information on either n

8

inmate or a detainee or a staff member, we could search

9

that system and print the -- the data information that

10
11
12
13

Excuse me.

I have a cold.

And so if some

they were looking for.
Q

And during the time back in 2000- -- it was

put in place about late 2018, correct, somewhere in '18?
A

I'm not sure 100 percent of the timeline.

14

middle of 2018 sounds about right.

15

now, so there was a lot of moving parts to that.

16

a lot of work, so --

17
18

Q

Okay.

It's been a while
It was

But in 2019 during the months of

February to July of 2019, the system was in place?

19

A

Absolutely.

20

Q

Now, as it relates to Mr. Robinson you did

21

The

supervise him at the detention facility, correct?

22

A

I did.

23

Q

And as of June of 2000- -- June 26th of 2019

24
25

he was placed on administrative leave?
A

I don't know the date, but I know that at some

133

1
2
3
4

point he was placed on administrative leave.
Q

he never came back to work for the facility, correct?
A

5
6

And after being placed on administrative leave

Not that I'm aware of.
MR. SIMMONS:

Your Honor, subject to recall.

7

THE COURT:

8

MR. KING:

9

THE COURT:

10
11
12

Nothing further at this point,

Okay.

State.

Very, very brief, Your Honor.
Yes.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. KING:
Q

All right, sir.

With the RFID system if an

13

officer did not input information, what would the system

14

tell you?

15

A

16

Nothing.
MR. KING:

17

No other questions.
*

18
19

*

*

*

-

-

-

*

OFFICER THOMAS DYAL, JR.,

20

having been produced and first duly sworn as a witness,

21

and having responded "I do" to the oath, testified as

22

follows:

23
24
25

THE COURT:

Thank you, sir.

Please be seated.

And, Mr. King, when you're ready.
MR. KING:

Thank you, Your Honor.

134

1
2

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. KING:

3

Q

Good afternoon.

4

A

Good afternoon.

5

Q

Please introduce yourself to the jury.

6

A

My name is Thomas E. Dyal, Jr.

7

Q

And where do you work, sir?

8

A

Baker County Sheriff's Office.

9

Q

How long have you been with the Sheriff's

10

Office?

11

A

18 years.

12

Q

What are the positions you've held in your

13

tenure?

14

A

I've held correctional officer until 2012.

15

got moved up to correctional sergeant.

16

moved to the detention lieutenant.

17

to detention inspector.

18

sheriff on patrol.

19

I moved into director of ICE operations back in the

20

jail.

21

Q

I

And in 2016 I

And in 2019 I moved

2020 I went out to deputy

And most recently this past October

And I want to take you to specifically the

22

March to July of 2019 time frame.

23

at that point?

What were your duties

24

A

I was the detention inspector.

25

Q

And describe for the jury what that means.

135

1

A

You investigate various processes in the jail,

2

any kind of crime that's been committed.

3

of conflict you have between staff and inmates or

4

inmates and inmate- -- inmates, whichever one.

5
6

Q

Also any kind

And are you familiar with the surveillance

system and the recording system within the jail?

7

A

Yes, sir.

8

Q

Can you please explain to the jury how the

9
10
11

recordings are saved and the process that the system
goes through for recording and saving those videos.
A

If we have an incident we -- or the system

12

then was on a DVR system, so basically it would record

13

for so many days.

14

which then was approximately 21 days, it would overlap

15

itself, so to speak.

16

you had to go in and record that specific one off of the

17

whatever camera system you need -- or whatever camera

18

you needed for that time and date.

19

Q

And then after that period of time

If you wanted a specific incident,

So in that 2019 range of March to July 2019

20

area, did I hear you say it was about 21 days was the

21

time that the videos would be kept?

22

A

Yes, sir.

23

Q

Okay.

So hypothetically let's say an incident

24

happened 40 days, just picking a random number, was

25

there any way to obtain that video?

136

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

A

No, sir.
MR. KING:

No other questions.

I tender the

witness.
MR. SIMMONS:
*

No questions, Your Honor.
*

*

*

*

(Proceedings concluded at 3:56 p.m.)

137

1

C E R T I F I C A T E

2
3

STATE OF FLORIDA

)

4

COUNTY OF BAKER

)

5
6

I do hereby certify that I was authorized to

7

and did stenographically report the foregoing excerpt of

8

proceedings, pages numbered 1 through 135, and that the

9

transcript is a true and correct record of my

10

stenographic notes.

11
12

Dated this 4th of March, 2024.

13
14
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18
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______________________________
Angela Reichenbach
Court Reporter

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1

INDEX
PAGE

2
3
4
5
6

WITNESSES
LIEUTENANT DAVID MANCINI
Direct Examination by Mr. Yazdiya
Cross-Examination by Mr. Simmons
Proffer by Mr. Simmons
Redirect Examination by Mr. Yazdiya
Recross-Examination by Mr. Simmons

3
11
18
28
36

JOSHUA POWE
Direct Examination by Mr. Yazdiya
Cross-Examination by Mr. Simmons

40
52

SPECIAL AGENT JEROME COMBS, JR.
Direct Examination by Mr. Yazdiya
Cross-Examination by Mr. Simmons

56
72

SPECIAL AGENT EDGARDO ROSADO
Direct Examination by Mr. Yazdiya
Cross-Examination by Mr. Simmons

76
89

SPECIAL AGENT JAMES DEPALMA
Direct Examination by Mr. Yazdiya
Cross-Examination by Mr. Simmons

95
102

SPECIAL AGENT DOMINIC CASIOTTA
Direct Examination by Mr. Yazdiya
Cross-Examination by Mr. Simmons

104
109

CHRISTINA FAIRCLOTH
Direct Examination by Mr. King
Cross-Examination by Mr. Simmons

110
113

SERGEANT JAMES MESSER
Direct Examination by Mr. King
Cross-Examination by Mr. Simmons
Redirect Examination by Mr. King

116
125
133

OFFICER THOMAS DYAL, JR.
Direct Examination by Mr. King

134

7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

139

INDEX CONT'D

1

PAGE

2
3

EXHIBITS

4

STATE'S:

5

NO. 1

UPS shipping receipt

67

6

NO. 2

UPS shipping confirmation

87

7

COMP. NO. 3

Shift schedules

8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE:

116